Sidra Smith, Head of Professional Learning at R.E.A.L. Discussion, shares her perspective as an educator and leader who has spent years designing and leading faculty summer reading experiences across schools—and now supports teams in turning those experiences into meaningful, schoolwide professional learning.

For many years, spring marked my “summer reading” season. I’d narrow a shortlist, planning to use spring break to read and return ready to propose a book or a few options for faculty. I’d imagine the conversations my colleagues would have, certain they’d see their students in the text and want to talk about it together.

Then I’d work backward from August: ordering books, drafting questions, and considering how to group people for meaningful discussion. I’ve been lucky to work at schools willing to buy a book for every adult, a small but meaningful signal that their intellectual lives mattered. I still remember leading my first summer read, poring over A Hope in the Unseen and feeling both the weight and joy of shaping a shared experience.

Of course, it didn’t always land the same way. Some years, conversations ran long and spilled into hallways. In other years, people showed up politely but never quite took off. Across different schools and contexts, a clear pattern emerged: when summer reading worked, it wasn’t because of a perfect book. It was because the experience involved several important jobs at once.

That realization now shapes my work at R.E.A.L. Discussion. In professional learning with schools, we focus on designing shared experiences that intentionally do the same work:

• building culture across teams
• advancing strategic priorities
• modeling the kinds of discussion and thinking we want students to develop

Summer reading is culture-building.

At its best, summer reading creates a shared experience that cuts across roles and divisions. Teachers, coaches, administrators, and staff are all engaging with the same ideas, even if they interpret them differently. That shared experience quickly becomes shared language. Phrases from the book show up in meetings and hallway conversations, giving people shorthand for complex ideas about students, learning, and school culture.

When designed well, it also creates space for connection. Thoughtful grouping and strong questions allow colleagues who rarely sit together to have real conversations, not just logistical ones. Over time, that builds trust and strengthens relationships across the adult community in ways that are hard to manufacture otherwise.

Summer reading is strategy-in-action. 

Summer reading can also serve as an early entry point for strategic priorities. When a school names a focus like belonging, well-being, or student engagement, choosing a book in that lane gives faculty time to sit with those ideas before any formal initiative begins. It creates a low-stakes space to ask, “What would this actually look like with my students?”

The impact is rarely immediate or dramatic. Instead, it shows up in small but meaningful shifts: how people talk about attention, stress, success, or which students are thriving. Over time, those shifts accumulate and create a kind of soft launch for larger changes. By the time new structures or programs are introduced, the underlying ideas already feel familiar and shared.

Summer reading models important lessons for students. 

Summer reading also carries symbolic weight. When students see adults reading, referencing ideas, and engaging as learners, it offers a concrete model of what it means to keep growing intellectually. It reinforces that reading and reflection are not just student tasks, but lifelong practices.

For faculty, the experience signals something equally important. Providing a book, carving out time to read, and protecting time for conversation communicates that their intellectual lives matter. When the experience feels like an invitation into shared learning, not an obligation, it becomes a form of care, not just professional development.

When summer reading works, it’s not because everyone loved the book. It’s because it’s doing quiet, important work in the life of the school. That work looks something like this:

• Signaling that the school values faculty as thinkers by investing time, money, and attention in their intellectual lives.
• Giving faculty a shared experience across divisions, departments, and roles.
• Developing a shared language for talking about students, teaching, and school culture.
• Making mission statements and strategic priorities feel concrete and lived‑in, not just framed on a wall.
• Creating structured opportunities for real conversation and relationship‑building among adults who rarely sit together.
• Supporting professional growth and reading habits in a way that feels more invitational than evaluative.
• Modeling lifelong learning for students by letting them see that the adults in their community also read, wrestle with ideas, and change their minds.

At its best, faculty summer reading is one of the simplest ways schools can honor the intellectual lives of the adults who make everything else possible. It’s a relatively small investment, some books, some time, some thoughtful design, that can create shared experience, shared language, and a clearer connection between what we say we value and what actually happens once students walk through the doors.

Not everyone finishes the book, and not every conversation takes off. But over time, it can nudge school culture toward more curiosity, more coherence, and more care for the humans doing the work. That still feels worth planning for every spring.

If you’re thinking about how to approach summer reading this year, Conversation Comeback: A Schoolwide Guide to Discussion in a Distracted, Divided World offers a practical, schoolwide approach to doing this work with intention. The book contains chapter takeaways and reflection prompts for leaders, faculty, and community conversations. Order in bulk and we’ll send you a link to sign up for a 30-min Author Talk with Liza Garonzik. And if you’re looking for support in designing professional learning that actually sticks, you can learn more here: https://realdiscussion.org/services/

Thank you to Maggie Iuni for sharing her R.E.A.L. life with us! Maggie is an English teacher at Berkeley Carroll School in Brooklyn, NY. We loved hearing about Maggie’s experience using R.E.A.L. to help her students grow their curiosity and perspective-taking, and discover their own “why” when it comes to learning discussion skills. 

Name: Margaret “Maggie” Iuni

Hometown: Brooklyn, New York

Current School: At the Berkeley Carroll School, I teach “Literatures of Community”, which is our 9th-grade literature class. Last semester, I taught 10th-grade “Voice and Style”, which is our personal essay writing class. And then this semester, I have a new 12th-grade elective, which is called “The Marriage Plot and Rom-Coms”, which has been fun.

Thinking back to when you were a student, how would you describe yourself in three words?

I’m going with “curious, enthusiastic, and diligent.”

When it comes to discussion, what is your “why”? What feels compelling and important about teaching these particular skills?

I went to Brooklyn College for undergrad, and while I was there, my professors had a really heavy emphasis on critical literacy. One of the things they instilled in me is that my why actually isn’t the thing that matters. What matters is the student’s why, and so my why is actually helping them discover their own.

To me, the whole point of these discussions is helping students figure out why does this matter to them. Because if you can’t figure that out, you’re going to think that this is the most boring thing in the world. 

And why would you bother going to English class if you can’t understand that this actually has an impact on your life, right? It’s not necessarily the plot of the book, but the ideas in the book are something that could be meaningful to you. I try to really center on that and ask them, “Why does this matter to you?” Why do these ideas resonate with you? Something that I love about R.E.A.L. Discussion is that it centers student voices and doesn’t say, “Oh, that’s something that we shouldn’t be talking about, we should only be talking about the text, we should only be talking about history class”. Instead, the Relate skill explicitly says, you should be thinking about how this relates to your own experiences in your own life, and I think that that’s really powerful.

That’s such a wonderful way of putting it, especially for kids. 

It’s funny because the kids struggle with the format of R.E.A.L. A lot of them report in the surveys that it’s so unnatural, so scripted. My response to them is, first of all, if it’s too scripted, that’s because your prep work is written in full sentences. And second of all, if you’re uncomfortable with the format, I hear that. They’re right; it isn’t natural, but the structure is there for a reason.

We just made it through the end of Cycle 2 a couple of weeks ago. Some students say they wish we didn’t have to do all this extra stuff, but they 100% have grown into the format. Now they report that they’re listening better and taking notes better. So it’s about exposing them to a level of discomfort that’s truly very accessible and that they will have to figure out how to integrate into their life as academic students. 

Now that you’ve used R.E.A.L. Discussion in your class for a couple of years, do you feel like you can identify a time of the year when you see a turning point for the kids and their skill development? 

Yes, I think so. We read four complete books throughout the year, but the first conversation that we have, no matter what we would be doing it on, is about learning the format. It’s not really going to be the best conversation of all time. In fact, think that’s true for the entire first cycle. 

Once we get through the structures, they kind of realize that the structures have value. They roll with it, and then we can do more beyond that. Then Cycle 2 is really where it kicks off. This year, the kids really liked dissecting The Prime of Miss Jean Brody in their R.E.A.L. Discussions and the structure paid off. This novel is a nasty little book because the narrator is completely unreliable and on the side of this really terrible teacher, who is literally a blatant fascist, and who influences the students in terrible ways. This book is brilliant and is truly a masterclass on what a sentence can do. She has these little pernicious sentences that are so good. 

It takes a while, but by the third cycle, you start to see them use the skills more fluidly—they relate, ask strong questions, and use nonverbal cues so naturally they don’t even realize they’re doing it.

That’s so wonderful to hear. Thinking back to your first R.E.A.L. Discussion, was there anything you were worried about beforehand? Were there any surprises or unexpected successes?

I was totally terrified. I kept wondering—what was I supposed to do? How do I stay hands-off but still support them?

My first R.E.A.L. Discussion was last school year, in September 2024. I thought, we’ll just see how it goes. I was honestly shocked by how long they could talk when you give them the space, and how on task they stayed with those little accountability tools—note-taking, the timer on the board. (They’re very good at tracking their own time!) What surprised me most was how completely they rose to the prompt.

Now that I’ve done this twice, I think the real success comes when they finish that first conversation saying, “We don’t need this anymore—we can just have normal conversations.” That’s when I know it’s working, even if they don’t realize it yet. They feel confident enough to think they don’t need the structure—but they still do. That, to me, should feel empowering for other educators: it means you’ve created a space where their voices actually work. The format is just there to hold that growth until they can carry it themselves. 

That really rings true. I think a lot of teachers worry about that first discussion. The kids can be resistant to the NVCs. And it’s natural for teachers to wonder whether they are doing it right.

It’s challenging for teachers to let the kids go off and talk. You don’t have to listen to every single thing, but a lot of teachers are so anxious about that: Can I make sure the kids get what we need out of it if they talk without me being there?

The only thing that I grade for R.E.A.L. Discussions is their prep work because that’s the part that shows the groundwork thinking.  I want them to practice the skills of note-taking without writing everything line by line. I want them to be able to have flexibility in conversation while being prepared. 

By doing the prep work, when they come to class, they will be much more prepared and have much more fruitful conversations. And so, for me, if I know that their prep work is done, then I can feel a lot more confident in letting them go talk.

Right—otherwise you wouldn’t know if they’d reached a real processing level.

Yes, and to the point about not always knowing if everyone has grasped something in a class discussion—what I love to do, especially during high-stress times like midterms, finals, or the end of a quarter, is collect the shoutouts students have received. I pull them from end-of-cycle reflections and even from notes or journal entries. Then, I share some of the comments anonymously, so they don’t know who said what, but they can see how their classmates appreciated their ideas. It’s a small way to remind them that others see their insight, humor, and thoughtfulness. Giving them that little confidence boost right when they need it most is really fun.

That’s so awesome! Have you seen any student “breakthroughs” or “ah-ha moments”? 

I’ve seen two ends of the spectrum this year, and something similar happened last year, too. One student is naturally outgoing, and they are supremely invested. Early on, they tended to dominate discussions. I think they felt any dead airtime was their responsibility to fill. 

As part of the debrief, I always ask: Whose voice did you hear the most? Whose voice did you hear the least? And I have them reflect on that. In their most recent survey, that student wrote, “I’ve gotten much better at sharing airtime and being a much more active listener. I’ve realized my voice is not the only one I need to be paying attention to.” I thought, amazing—love that.

On the other end, I have one of the quietest students I’ve ever taught. They still struggle with getting into the R.E.A.L. Discussions. But one thing that’s been really empowering for that student is that all the other students consistently give them the most shoutouts. Even if they only speak twice in a 25–30 minute conversation, the thing they said is what sticks out to their peers.

R.E.A.L. is going to be different for every student because each student has different strengths and challenges. What I love about it is that the entire spectrum of students – from the most talkative to the least talkative – can find something to take away from this practice and celebrate about themselves and their classmates.

That’s so cool to hear about the growth on both sides of the spectrum, especially about the student who didn’t speak much. I think self-silencing is also very common. 

I agree. Some think, “I can only share if it’s perfect.” R.E.A.L. helps with that. One of my favorite stats on my dashboard is how many students have said that they are willing to change their minds as we go through this. I’m lucky that Berkeley Carroll has a truly amazing community, and our kids are mostly very kind to each other. But it’s really wonderful to see that they can go into a discussion thinking, “This is my opinion and everything that I say is right,” and then by the end of the discussion, recognize that there are other perspectives.

How amazing for a 9th or 10th grader to go into a class thinking that something they hear from a peer might change their mind and that they might learn from them!

That’s one of the things I really like; it ties into my top three learning goals for discussion.

Last question: Do you have a favorite quote or one that has been inspiring to you lately? 

I find inspiration in everything! As an English teacher, I really do feel like you can find inspiration from anywhere. As I’m starting to think about prepping Sula for the fourth quarter, I’ve been thinking a lot about Toni Morrison’s quote, ”If you are free, you need to free somebody else.” And I’ve been thinking a lot about that in terms of what does that mean to a society? What does that mean to me? How are we defining free? And how can I help empower others in that way? I might not be able to free somebody economically, but how can I empower this person to understand a little bit more about who they are, where they come from, and what they want out of life?

That quote has been sticking with me. It’s something that I’ve been inspired by and still try to parse out.

Feels like that comes full circle back to your why.

Yes. It does! 

It was such a delight to get to talk with you, Maggie. Thank you for sharing your R.E.A.L. wisdom with us! 

How should schools respond when the conditions for learning—and for human interaction—are shifting in real time?

These questions are showing up everywhere.

Educators and school leaders are noticing the same patterns: Students are capable, thoughtful, and engaged in many ways, yet they are navigating challenges that make it harder to focus, communicate, and fully participate in shared learning experiences.

These are not isolated issues.

They reflect deeper shifts in how Gen Z and Gen Alpha learners process information, relate to one another, and make sense of the world around them.

If we want to respond effectively, we have to look beneath the surface.

In Conversation Comeback, we identify four core challenges that help explain what’s happening and what students need from schools now.

1. Technoference: When Digital Norms Disrupt Real Conversation

Technology has fundamentally reshaped how students communicate.

Today’s learners move seamlessly across texts, DMs, comments, and feeds, each with its own norms. They are used to reacting quickly, stepping away from conversations, or engaging without consequence.

But face-to-face discussion requires something different:

• sustained attention
• nonverbal awareness
• real-time thinking and response

Many students struggle to distinguish between on-screen and in-person communication. What feels natural online can feel uncomfortable or even risky in a classroom discussion.

2. Emotivism: When Disagreement Feels Personal

In today’s culture, feelings and beliefs are often intertwined.

This makes academic discussion more difficult. When ideas feel tied to identity, disagreement can feel like a personal attack rather than an intellectual exchange.

Students are navigating:

• heightened emotional expression
• polarized public discourse
• limited models of productive disagreement

As a result, many students avoid discussion altogether.

Without explicit instruction in how to separate ideas from identity and engage across difference, meaningful conversation is hard to sustain.

3. Diminished Attention: The Barrier to Listening and Learning

Attention is the foundation of effective communication.

But Gen Z learners are developing in environments shaped by:

• short-form content
• constant notifications
• rapid task-switching

In the classroom, this shows up clearly:

• difficulty tracking multi-step conversations
• surface-level responses instead of deeper thinking
• challenges with active listening

Cognitive science is clear: Multitasking is a myth. What students experience as multitasking is actually constant switching, which reduces comprehension and weakens memory.

Without sustained attention, student engagement in discussion breaks down.

4. Executive Function Gaps: The Hidden Demands of Discussion

Strong classroom discussion depends on more than ideas.

Students must be able to:

• organize their thinking
• hold multiple perspectives at once
• decide when and how to contribute
• adjust their thinking in real time

These are executive function skills, and many students need more support developing them.

In a high-distraction, high-pressure environment, these demands can feel overwhelming. For students experiencing anxiety, even entering a conversation can be difficult.

Why This Matters for Schools Right Now

Taken together, these four challenges—technoference, emotivism, diminished attention, and executive function gaps—help explain why classroom discussion is more difficult than it used to be.

If we continue to treat discussion as something students should already know how to do, we will continue to see uneven participation, shallow engagement, and missed learning opportunities.

And once we name the challenge, we can respond to it.

From Conversation Crisis to Conversation Comeback

The central idea behind Conversation Comeback is simple:

Discussion skills are not intuitive, but they are teachable.

When schools approach discussion as a core academic skill, they can begin to:

• explicitly teach listening and speaking
• scaffold participation and idea-building
• create structured opportunities for practice
• build a shared language for conversation across classrooms

Over time, discussion becomes more than participation. It becomes a disciplined, academic practice that strengthens thinking, learning, and connection.

This is the work of R.E.A.L.® Discussion. R.E.A.L. is not a one-off strategy or a set of discussion prompts. It is a research-informed, practice-proven approach to building communication skills with the same level of rigor we apply to reading and writing, built in partnership with more than 100 schools.

Build a Conversation Culture

If these challenges feel familiar, you are not alone. Schools across the country are asking the same question: How do we rebuild strong student discussion skills in today’s world?

Start with the book.
Conversation Comeback offers a clear, actionable framework for teaching discussion in today’s classrooms. You’ll find a version for K-12 humanities teachers and a schoolwide version for leaders, faculty, and family at conversationcomeback.org.

Start the conversation with us.
If you’re thinking about how to bring this work to your school or across your team, we’d love to talk. From classroom practice to schoolwide strategy, we help schools build a true culture of conversation.

Because this moment calls for more than awareness. It calls for a Conversation Comeback.

School leaders and teachers see the Conversation Crisis every day. Students arrive academically capable, but when it is time to engage in real discussion, something happens. Participation feels risky. Silence feels safer. Community breaks down. It is the predictable result of a screen-saturated, polarized, AI-shaped world.

Enter Conversation Comeback.: A Teacher’s Guide to Class Discussion in a Distracted, Divided World — a new book by R.E.A.L.® Discussion founder and CEO Liza Garonzik

Grounded in more than a decade of work with schools across the country, the book equips educators with a research-informed, practice-proven framework for teaching the foundationally human skills like discussion intentionally.

We’re encouraged and honored by the response from early readers, whose words whose words affirm both the urgency of this moment and the practicality of the approach.

“A ‘what do we do about this challenge’ solution-oriented book for the present moment.” — Michael Horn

“A coherent, actionable system for building essential human skills.” —Jeff Wetzler

“A guidebook that belongs in every teacher’s toolkit.” — Grant Lichtman

“A timely, practical blueprint for strengthening how students learn, lead, and connect.” — Megan D. Cover

“A plan for teaching the most foundational, human, necessary, and AI-proof skills.” — Claire Goldsmith

“The antidote we need.” — Danielle Heard

“A balm for our digitally intermediated times.” — Peter Nilsson 

“A teachable framework for building discussion skills that strengthen uniquely human capacities.” — Margarita O’Byrne Curtis

“A refreshing reminder of what it means to be human and authentic.” — Bradford Gioia

“An energetic, practical, can-do guide.” —Bart Griffith

Why This Book Matters

The Conversation Crisis is real. In a screen-saturated world, students rarely get authentic opportunities to practice live, human-to-human conversation. They can text instead of talk. Ask a bot instead of a friend. Post into an algorithm-fueled echo chamber. Tune out with headphones.

Meanwhile, in classrooms, we ask them to engage in meaningful discussion.

Class discussion is bigger than academics. It is one of the few spaces where students can build essential human skills — listening, empathy, curiosity, and critical thinking — that matter for learning, life, and society.

As AI reshapes what students can produce, teachers must double down on what students can practice.

What Conversation Comeback Offers

For more than a decade, R.E.A.L.® Discussion has worked with over 100 schools to build a research-informed, practice-proven approach to teaching and assessing discussion skills. In Conversation Comeback, that approach is made accessible to any educator ready to begin.

R.E.A.L.® breaks discussion into four skills — Relate, Excerpt, Ask, and Listen — turning discussion into a teachable, learnable, and measurable practice.

With clear strategies and frameworks, this book equips educators to foster authentic conversation, deeper learning, and stronger classroom communities in a tech-driven and AI-forward world.” Debra Wilson, NAIS President

Teaching discussion is not just a pedagogical choice. It is a strategic one. This is not just about better discussion. Each class discussion is a step closer to a future rich with real, human connection.

Beyond the school day, our shared future depends on teaching today’s students the discussion skills they need to transcend the Conversation Crisis.

That said, Conversation Comeback is not an endpoint. It is the beginning of a broader movement to restore discussion as a core academic practice and a cornerstone of human connection in schools.

Start here. And let’s keep the conversation going.

If You’re Already Part of the REAL Community

So many of you are already partners or long-time champions of this work. This book is as much yours as it is ours!

Here are meaningful ways you can support Conversation Comeback:

• Leave an honest review on Amazon , Blue Hat, or GoodReads. Verified reviews make an enormous difference in helping new educators discover the book.
• Share the link with a colleague, department chair, or head of school.
• Make Conversation Comeback your summer read. More info coming soon on our new edition, written especially for a broader faculty and community-wide audience.
• Post a reflection or connection to REAL in your school on LinkedIn and tag R.E.A.L.® Discussion.

Here’s the CONVERSATION COMEBACK ahead!

On The Purpose and Practice of K-12 Humanities Teaching in Today’s World, Co-written by Humanities Educators | 2026

Schools are moving quickly to adopt AI. New policies are being drafted. New tools are being piloted. Professional development is focused on integration and regulation. All of this work matters. But as the AI conversation accelerates, something is missing.

Humanities teachers have had little time to step back and interrogate the larger issues about pedagogy, childhood, and humanity in an AI world. What is the enduring purpose of reading, writing, and discussion? What must remain deeply human? What shifts in classroom practice, not just policy, are required and why?

R.E.A.L.® Discussion created space for that conversation, convening a collaborative of K–12 humanities educators and academic leaders to engage these foundational questions together. Over two months, participants read, wrote, reflected, and discussed what it means to teach the humanities at this pivotal moment.

The result is Humanities and Humanity in an AI World: An Educator’s Manifesto — a co-constructed declaration about reading, writing, discussion, and the lived experience of being a humanities teacher today.

“We cannot let the AI conversation stay only at the level of tools,” said Liza Garonzik, Founder of R.E.A.L.® Discussion. “The real question is not simply what AI can do, but what only humans can do. We are already living through a conversation crisis. Students are more screen-bound and less practiced in live dialogue. This manifesto reflects the shared belief that educators have the expertise and daily influence to cultivate uniquely human capacities. If we intentionally teach students to read deeply, write clearly, and engage in real discussion, we are not pushing back against the future; we are guiding it. This is our opportunity to lead a true Conversation Comeback.”

We offer this manifesto as an invitation. If your school is ready to move beyond tactical AI conversations and into foundational ones, we encourage you to read the document, share it with your team, and use the reflection questions on the final page to begin your own discussion.

At R.E.A.L.® Discussion, we help schools translate conversations like these into coherent, skills-based practice. If you are ready to build a deliberate approach to reading, writing, and discussion in an AI-shaped world, we would welcome the opportunity to partner with you. Find a time to chat here.

We hope you’ll join us on LinkedIn for the conversation about the Manifesto.

Thank you to Anastacia Ike-Foreman for sharing her R.E.A.L. life with us! Anastacia is a seventh and tenth-grade English teacher at Tarbut V’Torah Community Day School (TVT) in Irvine, CA. She shared her perspective that listening is the heart of discussion and that structured dialogue helps her students move beyond black‑and‑white thinking toward more nuanced critical reasoning. This interview has been lightly edited for clarity. 

Name: Anastacia Ike-Foreman

Hometown: Costa Mesa in Orange County, California (though I spent 10 years in Charlotte, North Carolina and Rock Hill, South Carolina).

Current School: I teach seventh- and tenth-grade English at Tarbut V’Torah Community Day School, an independent Jewish day school in Irvine, California.

Can you describe yourself as a student, in three words or phrases?

Undiagnosed ADHD, very talkative, and a struggling reader.

Who was your favorite teacher and why?

My third-grade teacher, Miss Plumbo, was my favorite because every day after recess, she would bring us in and read us a picture book by an author like Tomie dePaola or one with beautiful illustrations. As a kid who didn’t really like reading words on a page, I really engaged with this form of reading. She brought those stories to life by reading them to us. I really liked her creative teaching style.

When it comes to discussion, what is your “why”? What feels compelling and important about teaching these particular skills?

When it comes to discussion, there is a piece of humanity there: seeing the state of things in our world, looking at social media, looking at how people interact in all forms of media, watching my own family have their crazy discussions, and then thinking, Could we come to a place of understanding each other? Could we come to a place where we actually get somewhere and learn from each other, rather than proving a point in a civil way?

That was sort of my big a-ha. I started by taking Deep Listening, a program by the Stanley King Institute, which I found very helpful. I had many kids coming to me and talking to me, and I was wondering, “How do I help them?” I realized it was more about listening than fixing anything. And so, fast-forward: coming back to school, I thought, What if I could get kids to listen to each other? What if I listened better to my family? What if society started listening to each other? 

Although it’s a discussion, I think the magic is in the listening, because it helps us learn about each other, about who we are, and to respect and appreciate each other for our differences and individuality. Academically, discussion is a very important tool because it allows students to put their ideas together on the spot, creating meaning by going deeper than they ever would have if they were to think through the process individually.

And I think that, especially, my middle school students have a hard time seeing things in black and white. They say, here is my point – ta-da!  Discussion helps them to develop their critical thinking skills and challenge each other’s and their own ideas. Especially in literature, it’s crucial to move away from this concept of what is the right answer and toward considering all the possible answers. There’s room for more than one truth when it comes to literature and the humanities. You can hold onto your perspective and still hold space for someone else’s experience. Two things can be true.

I think that’s really well said! What would you say your two or three top learning goals are for your seventh graders? What do those goals look like for your tenth graders?

With my seventh graders, my biggest goal is to help them ask questions respectfully. Asking questions helps them move beyond black-and-white thinking and dig deeper into what the other person is thinking. For example, they can ask themselves, “Did I hear the other person correctly?” and “Where did that person get the evidence to come to that place?”

This week, one of my kids responded to a comment with “I disagree.” I said, “actually let’s try that again. Ask them a question.” And she said, “Okay, well, you said this, and I just, I don’t see how you came to that understanding.” The other person said, “That’s not what I meant to say. What I meant was …”  It was this ‘aha moment’ for everyone. Asking questions gives the other person a chance to rephrase what they’re saying, which is a huge skill, and then reach a point of reasoning. 

I think it’s really cool to have those moments, debrief them, and then say, next time, come from a perspective, enter with curiosity, rather than immediately getting upset that somebody disagreed with what you thought.

What about for your 10th graders? What does discussion look like in terms of their learning goals? 

With the tenth graders, I think asking questions and listening are still the main goals, but they look different from those in seventh grade. They’re practicing building on their own ideas or jumping in with their own evidence in response to what someone else says. And when someone asks a question or introduces a piece of evidence, the tenth graders take time to explore it, rather than just acknowledging that someone spoke and then moving on. Sometimes discussions can sound like, “Okay, now I speak and bring up a new thing.” And I’ll say, no, let’s pause. Let’s take that apart a little bit before moving on to what someone else has to say. Because we’re going to miss a lot of really insightful conversations if the students keep bouncing around.

Another big thing with them is the evidence piece. I’ve explained that bringing in evidence—actually turning to the same page and reading the passage together—isn’t just a protocol. Just because you read something and interpreted it a certain way doesn’t mean everyone else will interpret it the same way. 

Going back to the page and seeing it in context gives everyone a chance to understand how someone else is reading that evidence, which can lead to a more meaningful conversation. You might say, “I saw it this way, but could it also mean this?” So instead of just taking what someone says at face value, we pause and do an “evidence check.” That slows things down and helps everyone really think.

I think that the practice of slowing down and considering the evidence is really preparing them for the real world. They’re going to be handed a ballot one day and told, “These are the facts.” But I want them to have the instinct to pause and say, “Hold on, let’s look a little closer.” It’s about learning to think for yourself, not just accepting something because someone else said it.

This type of practice is also an important skill for navigating AI. The world has changed so quickly – even compared to when we used to talk about critical thinking or media literacy five or ten years ago. Now we have to ask, “Why is the algorithm feeding me this?” AI systems are built on data, and that data always carries bias. So we can’t just take everything AI produces as fact. We have to slow down, question what we’re seeing, and notice what might be shaping it. I love the idea of slowing down and focusing — of really tackling issues rather than just checking a box.

Take us back to the first R.E.A.L. Discussion you led. What were you worried about going into that first discussion? 

I’m going to step back even farther, before even starting a discussion method at all. My fear was losing control, not being the one guiding them, and having them devolve into chaos as they all talk over each other, start totally misinterpreting things, and lose track of our skill focus. To be honest, the biggest thing was “I’m not going to have control over what I need them to get.” That was probably my biggest fear.

I think that’s a pretty common one. How did that fear shift or change, or that perception change? Are there systems that you have developed to be able to navigate that? 

Yes, I’ve definitely developed systems for that. I think R.E.A.L. provides a well-structured approach that eliminates much of that fear. But I will also say my perspective completely changed. I shifted from feeling like “I need these kids to get here” to “these kids are actually teaching me things.” Their process of making meaning is more important than what I’ve already discovered or what I want them to know. Because if I just shut up and let them talk, they blow my mind every time. I’ve learned that the less I talk, the more they learn, the more they grow, and the more they blow me away with things I had never thought of.

And that’s not to say that I completely lose track of the discussion question.  I still guide them back to the discussion question in a common text, but in terms of thinking, they might come up with something that hasn’t been considered before, something more relevant to our context today. 

Can we zoom in a little bit deeper on the topic of the kids blowing you away? Is there a particular moment that comes to mind that you’ve experienced when a student had a breakthrough in discussion?

Yes. This one is a little heavy, but last year, when we were discussing [S.E. Hinton’s] The Outsiders, and one of the questions was about how losing people affected their character, how it changed their choices, how it changed their relationships with others in the book. One of my students, who had recently lost a parent, felt safe enough to say: I actually relate to this because I lost my parent. This student was not one to talk about the situation very much, but they shared that when they lost their parent, they felt that they went through sort of the same thing that Pony Boy went through and the rage that Dally’s going through. The student added, “I think that loss 100% can affect your choices, because I see myself in these characters,” and the other students fell silent. And I’m thinking, “Oh my gosh, his could go one of many ways.” And immediately, a friend of the kid asked, “Does it have to be losing people through death?” I said, no, and then that student shared, “Even though I haven’t lost anyone, I hear you, because I’ve gone through things where I feel like I don’t have anyone at home, and I really rely on my friends to give me the family structure. That helps me understand their character and why they stuck together as The Outsiders; because they were family, they didn’t have a mom and dad that they could rely on.”

And from there, almost everyone jumped in, sharing how they appreciated the relating both students gave, or offering their own experience to share. They came up with something so rich that it can’t be replicated. To see, more than anything, the safety that these kids created with each other, to be able to share these really intense, deep moments and have trust that they were going to be held by their classmates, is beyond anything academic I could hope for. And this is seventh grade! Seventh grade! What a beautiful thing!

What an incredible experience. Were you on the verge of tears? 

I had chills. I was crying and trying to keep it together. But I also felt it was okay if they saw me cry; you know, I’m a human being. I don’t need to just sit here like a news reporter. My relationship with my students is much more authentic as well. It’s okay for them to see that I have feelings and that I feel for them and that I love them.

I just want to love these kids, so I feel like teaching English gives me a way to reach them and stay flexible with that. There’s the humanity in all of it.

That is truly beautiful. Thank you for sharing. Our final two questions are slightly less deep. First, what advice would you give to a new teacher who’s on the cusp of starting their first R.E.A.L. Discussion? 

I would say start slow and simple. Take a little bit at a time. You don’t have to roll out the whole thing on day one.  Liza shared that we should think about the big picture at first. Give them some time to think, discuss, reflect, and give each other shout-outs.

And I would say go with that approach. Then use the hand signals, as they will keep kids on track and prevent them from talking over each other. And also the nonverbal “I agree” sign. Thinking big picture would be the way to start, and then with my seventh graders, we first focused on what it means to Relate, and then we really focused on just Relating in the first discussion. Then, in the second discussion, once we know Relate, we’ll add Excerpt.  We roll one skill at a time, then practice. Eventually, they’re doing everything. But I think for at least my seventh graders, it was important that we practice each skill rather than front-load them with everything at first. 

Final question: What is inspiring you right now? Do you have a favorite quote or book you’ve been reading?

I do a lot of reading and thinking, but one thing I’ll share isn’t necessarily the most inspiring. We use MAP [Measures of Academic Progress] testing.  One of our curriculum leaders was going through the readiness skills with each of the kids, and that gave me an idea. I started thinking about grouping students for discussion questions that target the same skill, but differentiating the questions based on their readiness levels.

So, for example, if we’re working on a theme, Group 1 might focus on What is the theme? Group 2 might look at How is the theme is proven? And Group 3 might explore How does the theme develop? They’re all working on the same overarching skill, but their discussion questions are different.

Then, after working in groups, everyone returns to the whole-class discussion to share their evidence. That way, all students get to access the text and the learning at a level that’s right for them. Everyone’s part of the same conversation; they’re learning from each other, but the differentiation gives each student a real stepping stone into the discussion. That’s something I’ve been inspired by lately and am thinking about trying—it’s a little new for us.

It was so wonderful speaking with you, Anastacia! Thank you for inspiring us with your ideas and innovative and caring approach to discussion!

At R.E.A.L.® Discussion, understanding how higher education approaches dialogue and discourse gives us a glimpse of what lies ahead for our K-12 students. The habits we build in middle and high school shape how young people show up as thinkers and community members for life. That starts with intentionally teaching how to actively listen, articulate ideas, question assumptions, and make meaning together. 

I reached out to Kristi Clemens, Executive Director of Dartmouth Dialogues at Dartmouth and co-author of From Safe Spaces to Brave Spaces, to learn how those same goals are coming to life on campus through Dartmouth Dialogues. 

Liza Garonzik: I’m excited to hear about Dartmouth Dialogues, but first, tell us about your path. Why do you believe in dialogue? 

Kristi Clemens: Thank you for inviting me. One of the joys of this work is connecting with people outside of higher education. We know we’re just one moment in a person’s larger education journey. 

Speaking of that journey, I’m a first-generation college student who never expected to build a career in higher ed. As an undergrad, I worked in admissions and residence life and found my calling in helping students grow. I tend to find the most joy in problem-solving work, so I sometimes describe myself as the person who runs towards the fire rather than away from it, and that’s been a theme in various higher ed roles for more than 25 years now.

That perspective shapes how I see today’s students. When they show up on our campus, it’s often the first time they’re confronted with something unexpected, and they aren’t sure how to handle it. They struggle with having uncomfortable conversations or talking through important decisions. These moments of friction and growth are pivotal, yet more often, I see students opt out when faced with uncertainty. Instead of problem-solving or seeking help, they outsource decisions or avoid hard conversations together. Their communication skills have precipitously decreased over the past decade.

And nationally, our discourse isn’t offering healthy models. If not higher education, who will teach these skills? As a first-generation graduate whose life was changed by access and challenge, I take that responsibility seriously.

That certainly resonates with our view at R.E.A.L.® Discussion, where we talk a lot about the opportunity teachers have to ensure their students graduate high school and enter today’s rapidly changing world with essential communication skills. Turning to Dartmouth Dialogues: what’s the origin story, the goals, and what does programming look like?

Kristi: Many colleges are rethinking how to teach dialogue and discourse, but Dartmouth began this work earlier. In 2019, Dean of the Faculty Elizabeth Smith noticed faculty struggling to spark deep classroom discussion and to navigate conflict with one another. She convened a small group to explore how other institutions were teaching constructive dialogue and drafted a proposal for what became the Dartmouth Dialogue Project.

The pandemic paused progress, but the idea gained momentum when President Sian Beilock arrived in 2023. Having led similar work at Barnard, she immediately saw its potential. Later that year, as global events renewed the urgency for difficult conversations, particularly following October 7, Dartmouth’s Jewish Studies and Middle Eastern Studies departments modeled what constructive engagement could look like through public panels on Israel and Gaza. Their example helped shape Dartmouth Dialogues, officially launched in January 2024.

Today, the initiative brings dialogue practice into every corner of campus, from the Dickey Center’s Middle East Dialogues to the Rockefeller Center’s political conversations to student-led debates through the Dartmouth Political Union. With partners like the Constructive Dialogue Institute and StoryCorps’ One Small Step, the goal is simple but ambitious: to make dialogue a shared skill set, not a side program. We want “surround sound” across campus, not a “dialogue house.” 

You’re right. Too often, dialogue is opt-in, missing those who need it most and creating echo chambers. We use a “Conversation Lab” analogy, like the computer labs that once taught every student to type. Imagine if discussion skills were taught with the same intentionality. 

Kristi: We definitely agree—intentionality matters, especially for today’s students. Our Gen Z students bring perspectives shaped by COVID and today’s political climate. They want change but often don’t know where to start. From day one, we set the expectation that dialogue is part of being in this community and give them brave spaces to practice. 

Students value it, and some choose Dartmouth for it, yet time is a real barrier. Our 10-week quarters move fast. They want these skills but can’t add more to their plates, which reinforces the need to integrate dialogue into existing courses and experiences.

Looking ahead, we’re exploring ways to anchor this work in the first-year writing program, seminars, and our residential house communities. Building trust takes time, but students consistently tell us they want dialogue embedded, not treated as an add-on.

We see the same gap: the desire is there, the skills aren’t, and time is scarce. Live conversation is rarely the most efficient, which is why protecting time matters.

Kristi: I think that’s why we’re seeing many pitches for AI chatbots as dialogue tools. Sure, some AI tools can help, but they can reinforce unhelpful habits. My own seventh-grader rarely meets friends face-to-face; they text and trade voice notes. The norms we’re allowing to solidify concern me.

That’s why I appreciate K–12 partners who interrupt those norms: phone-free schools, prompts to talk to one another, and more typing and writing rather than dictation. Small interventions can steer us back toward healthy interpersonal interaction, though we still need to learn how to scale what works.

K–12 colleagues like Eric Hudson point out that human–AI interaction is a “new category of conversation.” We’ll need language for it and clarity about how it differs from human dialogue. AI has compelling use cases, and face-to-face conversation has biological ones. We can outsource tasks and pursue efficiency, but if we cannot be good friends, partners, debaters, or collaborators, we lose essential social fitness.

Kristi: Yes, I think about late-night residence hall debates that challenged ideas for the fun of it. But on small campuses these days, a single misstep can follow a student, chilling discourse. Even so, there’s something rejuvenating about face-to-face exchange that challenges and is challenged in return. I hope we find ways to preserve that energy.

We absolutely share that hope at R.E.A.L. It’s not just about conversation; it’s about preparing them for citizenship, leadership, and life. To keep the conversation going, follow R.E.A.L.® Discussion on LinkedIn.

After many years as a school leader, this fall looks different for me. I am not walking into opening faculty meetings or greeting families at back-to-school night. Instead, in my new role supporting R.E.A.L.® Discussion, I spent the summer with hundreds of educators representing dozens of schools across the globe, listening closely to what is on their minds about teaching discussion this year.

One of R.E.A.L.®’s core principles is proximity: we stay close to teachers and students, learning alongside them. We take insights from research and from real classrooms and turn them into tools teachers can use right away. This summer reminded me how powerful that approach is. Evidence matters most when it is applied in practice.

From single-sex and co-ed schools, boarding schools and day schools, traditional and progressive contexts, we kept hearing the same message: teachers know that discussion matters, and they want tools to make it work for every student.

Here are three themes that stood out:

1. Teachers feel what students feel.

Even seasoned educators admitted to feeling nervous in our first structured discussions. Some wondered if they were “doing it right.” Others worried about talking too much or not enough.

That shared vulnerability quickly gave rise to empathy. Teachers recognized how often students, especially introverts or those unsure of themselves, feel the same way. Again and again, we heard teachers commit to making discussions more inclusive and helping every student’s voice be heard.

Teachers also reflected that we are all trying to navigate a world increasingly shaped by screens and AI. Many admitted they themselves over-rely on texts instead of live conversations, which made them more empathetic to students who avoid face-to-face interaction. Like their students, they acknowledged that conversation is a skill we all need to practice.

2. Listening is THE overlooked skill.

Many teachers began the summer focused on helping students “speak up.” But what came through in our work together was the equal importance of listening. Discussion is not just about who participates, but how communities of trust are built when students listen for understanding.

Teachers connected strongly with the L in R.E.A.L.®—Listen. They saw how easily classroom talk can drift into “speaking to share” instead of “listening to learn,” and how transformative it is when listening becomes the priority.

Teachers shared their joy when students made connections across units, and their frustration when prompts fell flat. In those conversations, it became clear: meaningful discussion is not just participation for participation’s sake. It is about building relationships, trust, and growth.

3. Teachers are hungry for actionable tools.

Assessment is an age-old challenge. Teachers want evidence-based ways to measure discussion without reducing it to a simple tally of who spoke. While this kind of hunger drives a lot of teachers to sign up for PD opportunities, far too often, what happens in those rooms feels abstract.

Teachers told us that the R.E.A.L.® approach stood out because it was actionable, solution-oriented, and gave them space to reflect. They also loved to “see inside” each other’s classrooms, something that rarely happens in an often-siloed profession. They left with concrete tools they could implement right away and the confidence to adapt them for their students.

Looking ahead

Educators are heading into this year on shifting ground. The rise of AI, new education policies, and the ongoing realities of student distraction and anxiety all add complexity to their work.

One surprise for me was how “all over the map” schools are when it comes to AI policies. In one week, I worked with teachers who were having students handwrite blue books to avoid ChatGPT, and others who were building discussion questions with Gemini. The spread is vast, but the common thread is clear: regardless of policy, teachers want students to hold onto distinctly human skills, like conversation.

As my colleague and R.E.A.L.® founder Liza Garonzik often says, “we’re teachers without classrooms.” That perspective continues to anchor me. I may not be opening the year with one school community. However, I still have the privilege of standing alongside many educators who are committed to the same mission: helping young people become better communicators in a world that demands it.

What gives me hope is the determination teachers are carrying into this school year. In the face of real challenges, such as distraction, anxiety, and the rise of AI, educators are committed to equipping young people with essential human skills, including listening, speaking, and connecting.

To all the teachers beginning a new year: thank you for your honesty, your vulnerability, and your conviction. We would love to hear what you are noticing as you step back into your classrooms.

If you are curious about R.E.A.L.® PD opportunities this year, keep an eye on the R.E.A.L.® Discussion page, where we share opportunities like our new “Humanities and Humanity in an AI World” sessions. Of course, we always welcome a conversation.

It’s been fun to see other founders share the “unhinged” things they have done to build their businesses. Many have resonated deeply: late nights, early mornings, competing priorities, sales-fails…

But to me, this trend is more than entertainment. It’s an example of authentic interaction in a world that is increasingly AI-dominated, and I’m a relentless champion for human connection.

So, what are some of the “unhinged” things I have done to build R.E.A.L.® Discussion?

1. I booked a terrifying number of speaking gigs, with essentially no speaking experience. One June, I ran 120 hours of PD, having facilitated half that number of hours total in my whole life to that point. And one October, I spoke at nine conferences, with exactly one presentation under my belt before that. Was it exhausting? You bet! Terrifying? Totally. But, I saw these opportunities as boot camp: time for me to build skills I needed and didn’t yet have, fast. Brain science says spaced repetition is the key to deep learning. After this experience, I believed it. I learned a lot in those early days—not only that I needed to develop a great program, but also that I needed to train great teammates to facilitate it.
2. I (over)relied on interns. Speaking of the team, my approach to talent management has probably been the most “unhinged” of it all. I began with interns, and will always have them. To this day, it fills my educator-heart to keep working with young people and giving them real responsibilities to develop professional skills: providing live client service, producing curriculum used by real classrooms, managing social media seen by thousands, and the list goes on. Those intern-only years launched the mantra that still guides our company today: If we’re learning, we’re winning.
3. I purposefully stayed the only FTE. Even when I could have afforded staff beyond interns, I chose to work with almost 90 contractors to build this thing. I have found that fractional experts offer high-quality, targeted work, and that approach has challenged me to get crystal-clear on each project I scope and direct resources and energy to. Plus, the constant turnover forced me to codify how we onboard and operate. This organizational maturity never would have happened if we had built with a few generalist FTEs passing Google Docs back and forth.
4. I filmed courses from my online-course-studio-laundry-room. After reading many blogs about how to set up the perfect online course studio, I decided I didn’t need a perfectly positioned fiddleleaf fig to get my message across. I built a standing desk out of diaper boxes on top of my dryer. I positioned my microphone as far away as possible from the chicken coop. And yes: the rooster makes his way into the audio tracks here and here. Hopefully, people find it charming. While an upgrade would be nice, thousands of educators have learned effectively from that setup.
5. For six years, I woke up at 4:30 am to do R.E.A.L.® work before going to my full-time job. I worked in schools during the day, then worked on R.E.A.L.® from 4:30–6:30 am. (You read that part about the rooster, right?). I saw the two jobs as complementary: my experience as a real teacher and administrator allowed me to design programs that would actually work on the ground level, and my bigger picture mission helped me keep the daily drama of school life in perspective. And yes: summers mostly meant even more time for R.E.A.L. ®, often spent on free passes at different WeWorks or leading workshops anywhere a school would hire me. As any founder knows, the time is there; you just have to find it.
6. Okay, I admit it. I even bought fake eyeglasses. Why? Because I’m not old enough to need “readers, “ but every great school administrator I know seems to wear glasses at least some of the time. It wasn’t just that. I actually got feedback that I needed to look older to be taken seriously! As the saying goes: to sell Jones what Jones buys, see the world through Jones’ eyes. (Don’t worry; I drew the line at the beaded lanyard).

Were these moves unconventional? Maybe. Unhinged? Probably. Worth it? Absolutely.

Those early days planted the seeds for a thriving company that has now served thousands of educators and tens of thousands of students across the country and around the world.

In fact, educators know what it means to hustle for something you believe in. At R.E.A.L.®, that means teaching real-world discussion skills in school, so students can build human connection even as they grow up in a tech-centric world.

What are the “unhinged” moves you have made to make your dream a reality? Drop a comment here or over on the R.E.A.L.® Discussion page, where we love discussing discussion. Of course, I always welcome a conversation.

What happens when we teach young people to truly listen, speak with courage, and connect face-to-face?

In Episode 8 of Millions of Conversations, hosted by Samar S. Ali and produced by NewsChannel 5 Network, Liza Garonzik joins the show to explore that big, deceptively simple question.

At a time when disconnection is everywhere—amplified by disconnection, polarization, and increased pressure on young people—Liza shares how R.E.A.L. Discussion® equips students and teachers with tools to reclaim conversation as a powerful, academic, and decidedly human practice.

What You’ll Hear in This Episode:

• Why face-to-face conversation is more than a soft skill; it’s a survival skill
• How R.E.A.L. turns listening and speaking into teachable, assessable practices
• What changes when students lead their own classroom discussions
• How communication tools ripple outward to kitchen tables, checkout lines, and future workplaces
• A hopeful, practical vision for education in a polarized, tech-saturated world

Why It Matters

We live in a moment defined by noise and an aching need for connection. And that need shows up everywhere: in classrooms, homes, neighborhoods, and institutions. This episode reminds us that the skills we need to rebuild trust and relationships aren’t automatic; they can be taught—and they often start with a single conversation.

If we want our kids to connect with others and lead with integrity, we have to teach them how. Face-to-face. In real time.”

Liza Garonzik, R.E.A.L. Discussion® Founder & CEO

Listen Now

Listen to the full conversation now on the Millions of Conversations podcast.

Prefer to watch?
Let’s Have a R.E.A.L. Discussion® with Liza Garonzik – Episode 8

Explore More

• Check out what teachers are saying about R.E.A.L.® in their classrooms
• Learn more about R.E.A.L. Discussion® and our approach
• Read about what we’re calling “The Other AI”
• Join our Community on LinkedIn where we love to discuss discussion