Name. Dr. David Reynolds

Hometown: Kansas City, Missouri

Current School: Pembroke Hill School (MO)

Teaching assignments: I teach 8th-grade English.

How would you describe yourself as a student?

I was creative and imaginative: I tended to think outside the box.

Who was your favorite teacher when you were a student and why?

In high school, it was Janice Paulson. She was a French teacher, and she’s the person who really inspired me to continue studying French at the college level. I ended up with a degree in French, taught French, and traveled quite a bit to France, where I have lived with French families.

When it comes to class discussion, what is your “why”? What feels compelling and important about teaching discussion skills?

For one thing, discussion is far more interesting than drill-and-kill worksheets. It’s interesting to hear what kids have to say: their thoughts and opinions, and how they perceive things.

I always remind them that if I ask a question, I don’t know the answer to it. I want to know their opinions. When they hear that, I can tell they let their barriers down a little bit, and that makes everyone feel far more comfortable.

I also tell the kids that when we have these discussions, I’m learning from them as well. I’m learning from their perspectives and how to look at things differently. I learn more by listening to them, because my perspective is not automatically the right one.

When it comes to discussion, can you share your top learning goals for your students?

It will sound as if I’m making this up, but the truth is that my goals are the acronym for R.E.A.L. discussion. It’s the 4 things.

Having kids connect with other texts and relate their personal experiences to what they’ve been reading. We spent some time connecting the main characters from both I Was Their American Dream and The Magic Fish in our class discussions.

It’s also important — maybe because I was in debate — to collect evidence to support your response, to find it and to write your notes based on what you want to share with your group.

Kids sometimes struggle with knowing how to ask questions. I always tell them, “No one wants to sit at a family discussion and have it be like a round robin. If I sat at the dinner table with you and just gave you my thoughts or opinions, and no one looked at me and said anything, it’d be strange.” These should feel like a real, natural discussion. They’ve gotten hugely better with practice.

And being good listeners to each other, giving each other eye contact, and listening to each other’s opinions. I have one class with a group that gets a little heated, so I always have to talk about maintaining respect and courtesy, because they’re fine young people who have strong opinions. They’re good, and I enjoy listening to them.

It was a struggle in the beginning, but now they’re far more comfortable as we practice it and get used to it.

I heard you say connection, evidence, questions, and listening, which we recognize as R.E.A.L.®: Relating, Excerpting, Asking, and Listening.

Take us back to the first R.E.A.L. Discussion you led. What were you worried about going into it? What surprised you about it? What was the biggest success in that first discussion cycle?

That’s been a long time ago now — about 9 months — but one of my biggest concerns was helping them understand the protocol, R-E-A-L, and how each part worked. I had done something similar before with reciprocal teaching, so I knew I had to practice with them what each part looked like. We practiced R, then E, then RE, then A, then REA, then L, and finally R-E-A-L together until they felt proficient.

What surprised me was how some of the groups came to it, the quality of the discussions they began to have, and how much they’ve grown throughout the year. At the beginning of the year, it felt very robotic; as the year has progressed, it’s become far more organic and natural.

A big early success was that they were able to identify what they had problems with. After discussion one, going into discussion two, they could name where their bumps in the road were with REAL and think about how to address that. After group share-outs, they would say things like, “We really worked on asking questions this time,” or “We did better listening to each other.” For me, the most striking part was how accurate they were in that reflection — I’d sit with each group (I usually had 4 groups in a class) for about 5 minutes, take notes, and their notes were almost identical to what I had written down. Sometimes they were almost more critical than I was.

What advice would you give to a teacher who’s about to start their first R.E.A.L. discussion cycle?

Not to be in a rush to do all 4 components at one time. Master it.

I have a slide for the protocol. Even now, near the end of the school year, I still review that slide with them. What does R look like? What does E look like? What does A look like? What does L look like? These are the things we’re looking for when we do a R.E.A.L. discussion. Having that constant protocol available has been helpful. I do Google Slides every week, and I always leave it on their slides for the week, so I can easily access it. Especially in the beginning, I would leave it up during the discussion. And I made a slide with Portfolio reminders: citation, quotes, notes and discussion questions.

I would tell other teachers not to worry so much at the beginning — just jump in and do it. Are you going to make mistakes? Yeah, you’re going to make mistakes. Are you going to do it the same way next year? No, you’re not. Are you going to do cycle 2 the same way you did cycle 1? You learn from mistakes, you learn from your errors, and you learn how to do things better. You have to jump in and start doing it and see what happens.

How do you plan for R.E.A.L. discussion?

I take some time to think about what we’ve focused on in class. Those things are what I center the discussion questions around. Sometimes I’ll go into ChatGPT and throw in some notes and say, “Okay, we’ve covered The Magic Fish and I Was Their American Dream, and I’m looking for 2 REAL discussions based upon these 2 novels. One comparing the main characters and others addressing the books’ themes. Give me 5 suggestions.” I’ll look at those suggestions and revise and edit to see which ones I think are better. That’s been helpful. The questions I’ve come up with have been good and high-level.

Over the course of this year, are there particular students whose growth through REAL discussion has stood out to you?

We’ve talked a lot about, going back to I Was Their American Dream, how did their identity form, who they are? How did their personal family story shape their own identity? I had some really interesting students who wanted to talk about their grandparents who were in Vietnam or Japan, or wanted to share their families’ rags-to-riches stories. They really got into talking about their own personal family stories.

I had another student; she told me she did not like talking out loud in class. She enjoys groups of 5 to 7. Recently, she’s volunteered to be the spokesperson for her group in front of the whole class. I think it was about building comfort and trust.

I had another student who has stood out to me more than anyone else. Her parents came to me one day and told me how comfortable she has felt this year [compared to previous years in school]. She loved when we read Fahrenheit 451. She loves dystopian novels. She got into Romeo and Juliet. For extra credit, she made a playlist for one of the characters. Later, she wanted to know if she could share it with the class.

This girl loves theater, she loves drama, and her dad came to me one day and said, “Dr. Reynolds, we have never talked to her about what she wants to do in the future, but she told us she wants to be an English teacher.”

Oh, that’s so touching. I love it.

It was one of those moments where you’ve got to keep from crying.

What inspires you? Do you have a favorite quote right now?

What inspires me is creativity.

I like to think of how we could do things differently and not the same old way, to try to maintain students’ interest, which is challenging. I feel like I’m just not young and fun anymore. So I want to do something that will be fun.

There’s a quote I like. It might sound a bit cliché, but it helps me a lot because I tend to be a worrier sometimes. The quote is, “Stop being afraid of what could go wrong and start being excited about what could go right.” It’s by Tony Robbins.

What’s next for you and your class? Where do you hope to take R.E.A.L. as we wrap up the school year?

Our next book is Twelve Angry Men, and that will complete our 4th cycle.

That’s great that you will get to 2 R.E.A.L. discussions this year.

To get in 12 discussions, you have to plan. Over time, the kids have gotten far more into it than they were at the beginning. At least that’s my impression.

Yes, and you’ve got the data to back that up. It has been a pleasure getting to know you this year. Thank you for your time and energy. I know you’ll be doing some fun things in France this summer and beyond. Maybe our paths will cross again, David.

I hope so. It’d be awesome.

If you’re a teacher interested in learning more about R.E.A.L.® Discussion, visit conversationcomeback.org for Conversation Comeback: A Teacher’s Guide to Class Discussion in a Distracted, Divided World or learn more about our professional learning opportunities, such as workshops, trainings, and retreats.

Names: Danielle Thurm, Rachel Oliveira, and Lily Carse

Hometown for all three teachers: St. Louis, Missouri 

Current School: Villa Duchesne (MO)

Teaching assignments: 

Danielle: My current teaching assignment is all of our 7th graders and about one-third of our 8th graders. 

Lily: I currently teach all of the 7th grade, one section of 8th grade, and then a section of high school as well. 

Rachel: This year, I’m teaching 8th grade, 9th grade, 10th grade, 11th grade, and 12th grade between the two semesters. So 8th through 12th!

How would you each describe yourself as students in three words?

Lily: It’s kind of interesting because I actually went here for high school, but we didn’t obviously use R.E.A.L. back then. I was very detail-oriented, consistent, and dedicated.

Danielle: I would agree with that from having known Lily as a student. I never had you in my classroom, but I always heard good things about Lily Carse and what a great student you were, and I observed those characteristics.

Lily: Well, thank you. I appreciate that.

Rachel: Thinking about what kind of student I was in high school, I was very curious—just intellectually curious. Creative, not so much in an artistic way, but I was kind of a creative thinker, and I was always looking for connections. I like to identify: how do these different ideas, maybe different subjects, connect with one another?

Danielle: I was very serious. I got really annoyed when other students weren’t on task, or if the teacher strayed off what we were supposed to be doing. So I was probably a little obnoxious, but I was very serious. I was very outspoken. If we’re only talking about English, I was really confident. I was the kid who never proofread her work, thinking, “I got it, it’s fine.” So, yeah—confident, serious, and outspoken.

When it comes to class discussion, what is your “why”? What feels compelling and important about teaching discussion skills?

Lily: I think a lot of what we try to teach our students to do at Villa is to find connections and to think outside the box. That’s a very Villa thing, and I think that R.E.A.L. helps our students to do that out loud. I also think that today’s world needs more compassion, and we also need more grounded civil skills. If we’re going to have civil religious relations, civil politics, civil anything, we have to start with home base, which is civil discussion skills. If students can’t do that in the classroom, we can’t expect our students to go out into the world and do that.

That’s such a helpful way to put it—you’re moving the thinking out into the open instead of keeping it in a notebook or on the page. For girls who are nervous to share, I love that idea of doing the thinking “out loud” so they can all learn from it.

Lily: Yes, and from a history-specific perspective, it helps my students to think thematically, and because in middle school they’re moving into that formal operational stage from concrete to abstract, if a kid isn’t quite there yet, watching other kids model that helps them to get there. I think R.E.A.L. really helps them to do that.

Danielle: I think my why has probably changed since I started using R.E.A.L. When someone first approached me about R.E.A.L. and said, “We’d like you to get trained in this; it would work well in middle school,” my first thought was, “I love talking about books. I can sit around and talk about books all day.” But so often, when you’re younger, you think talking about books means either you like it or you don’t, or you understand it or you don’t. R.E.A.L. allows them to realize that there’s more to a discussion. You can dig so deeply into the discussion.

Echoing what Lily said, I teach about women’s rights in the Middle East because we read I Am Malala, and I’m currently teaching a book that takes place during the Holocaust in Poland. To get them to discuss those sometimes uncomfortable things in our past in a really safe environment teaches them how to have civil conversations about uncomfortable things happening in the world today.

I think my “why” today would be because it’s for that one kid who doesn’t ever say anything in class. When you put them in a small group, the other girls in the group will say, “Come on, you got this—everyone let her talk.” They make space for each other. It’s really neat when you see that one kid say her idea and the other kids in her group are snapping because they agree. To see their faces light up that they were given space to say something and were affirmed in that way.

That’s beautiful. I’m so happy to hear that. Rachel, what about you?

Rachel: I really relate to what Lily and Danielle said. I have taught these skills in 9th grade, but I’ve also helped students utilize many of the skills during their sophomore and junior years. I love that they are transferable horizontally—across different classes—and also across the grades vertically. It has helped students to read texts more carefully and more critically. It especially gives the opportunity for more introverted students to think about what they want to share.  And it’s also helpful for students who are very extroverted but don’t often take a beat to think about what they want to say before they just start talking. 

It has also helped them in their writing—they come to the task of writing having already thought about the topic deeply, having had a lively dialogue with their classmates, and even having had their ideas refined by the process. For me, especially working with older students, I’ve seen how that can enrich the writing process for them, because they’ve been able to talk out these ideas and be challenged and pushed to think more deeply or differently about something that maybe they thought they had already made their minds up on.

Lily: I want to second that. The thing that I like about it, and I was not expecting when I started R.E.A.L., is that it’s so accessible, especially in middle school and especially now in our time. I read a statistic the other day that a relatively high percentage of 8th graders around the country are not at reading level. At our school, we probably have a higher percentage at grade level than other schools, but still, we have a lot of students with accommodations or learning disabilities, specifically in reading.

I think that being able to talk about something out loud instead of having to read it or write it makes thinking so much more accessible. Everyone can do it, and it’s less scary.

Rachel: Yeah, a lot of students who maybe struggle in other learning situations can shine, even quiet students. I’ve seen them find more confidence in their voice and what they have to share. And it’s these soft skills that AI is not going to replace—no matter how advanced technology becomes; you can’t replace those face-to-face dialogue skills that we’re trying to help them hone.

The other thing is I love that it puts students in the driver’s seat. It centers the student experience of learning rather than the teacher having to try to help them grasp these learning objectives. They are able to learn and to help one another. There have been times with older students—freshmen, sophomores—where they said, “How long are we having this discussion?” and I just say, “I’ll let you know when you need to stop,” and they talked for half an hour and still had more to say, and I said, “OK, we have to stop.”

I ask them, “How long do you think you’ve been discussing?” They shrug and say, “We have no idea—10 minutes?” Then I tell them, “You’ve been talking for 30 minutes,” and they can’t believe that. I think it shows them how capable they are, and it really boosts their confidence. 

Danielle: It’s also a great way to check for students’ understanding in a formative way. If you give them a test and, while you are grading it, you realize they don’t understand this book, it’s a stressful experience. But in a R.E.A.L. Discussion, as you walk from group to group and listen to what they’re talking about, you might think, “Oh, that student is missing the point,” or, “that student has interpreted that symbolism incorrectly,” and you can correct them then, instead of realizing it on an assessment.

Lily: Often, they’ll correct each other. There are times when I was observing and, as a teacher, it’s uncomfortable for us at first. I remember having that frog in my throat where I wanted to jump in and say, “Nope, that’s incorrect,” but I had to sit back. This was interesting: with my 8th graders last year, we were talking about the Reformation. One girl said something—we were talking about Martin Luther—and she said, “Didn’t he get assassinated?” I was sitting there thinking, “They’re thinking about MLK Jr., they’re thinking about MLK Jr.,” but I let it be. Then some of the other girls said, “No, that was Martin Luther King,” and another girl chimed in, “Wait, but how are they different?” They cleared it up themselves. I didn’t have to do anything, and that was much more of a learning moment for them.

I think these are all amazing examples. As you’re talking through what you’re seeing as the benefit of R.E.A.L., how do you see it connecting to the mission of Villa?

Rachel: Stacy (Director of Academics) and I gave a presentation to Sacred Heart educators in September about R.E.A.L. and how we use it in our school. One of our introductory pieces was how this practice connects with our Sacred Heart goals and criteria. Specifically, we commit ourselves to teaching the principles of nonviolence and conflict management, how to have respectful dialogue, helping students to develop empathy, and teaching and modeling respectful dialogue in support of clear, direct, open communication. We had all of these goals and criteria, and we could highlight all the ways in which R.E.A.L. Discussions really align with our mission as a Sacred Heart school and how we form young people and educate.

That’s wonderful. I’m curious about moments that stood out to you where you saw those principles in action—where the gears clicked for students, achieving the growth you envisioned? What did it look like for them and the other students?

Lily: I can think of one example, and I’m thinking of “personal growth in an atmosphere of wise freedom”—that’s one of our goals. There was a student last year who was very shy and lacked a lot of confidence in her academic work and had to work really hard to do well. But she was always a kid who had her assignments done—she just would never speak in class. She would never raise her hand. She always had her things filled out for me, but prior to R.E.A.L., she was always a really shy kid.

I remember thinking, “OK, she might hate this—making her sit in this group where she’ll have to talk in front of these other kids.” She always did her DQ Prep, and I told them they had to make a goal for themselves at the beginning of the discussion. She kept writing in her little reflection box: “I just wish I spoke this time.” At the third discussion, I came by and quietly pulled her aside and said, “You have great DQ prep; why don’t you say something?” For the fourth, I let her be and participate and watch, and all of a sudden, I heard her speaking. I was freaking out internally but trying to keep a chill face. I walked by her table—because I split them into small groups across a couple different classrooms—and she was talking! She wrote about her goal for herself that day: “I’m really proud of myself. I spoke.” Then she started speaking more, and by the second semester, she spoke regularly. That was a kid who needed that. I realized she never felt like she was smart enough to have anything to say, or that other kids would judge her, and they never did. That was a big a-ha moment for me: that personal growth looks different for every kid. I had kids who love to talk, and I suggested to them: “Maybe your goal is listening this time.” But this kid’s goal was to talk once, and it took her four discussions to build up to that, but she did, and it was small, but she did it.

That’s beautiful. What a great story!

Danielle: I have the opposite story. I had one of my strongest students in the class—she’s the one who others could probably easily just turn to because they know she knows the answer. At the end of a R.E.A.L. Discussion, she said, “You guys changed my mind.” She came into it with an idea, which was not an incorrect idea, but the people in her group managed to convince her that their thesis was correct. I love that she came into it open-minded enough instead of having the attitude of, “I’m the class leader; my idea is the correct idea.” At the end, she told them all, “You guys changed my mind.”

That’s so awesome!

Rachel: I’m thinking about a freshman this year. I actually wrote to her parents and told them that she’s very quiet in class, she’s very bright, but R.E.A.L. has given her an opportunity to step into a leadership role as a facilitator. She just naturally is very good at facilitating and pacing and inviting her classmates to share. For a student who’s somewhere in between—not too extroverted, not too introverted—she doesn’t dominate the conversation, but she also is not someone who never speaks. To see her naturally become a facilitator and use those skills was really beautiful. I think her family appreciated hearing that, because they may never get a chance to witness it, but I did and told them about it. That was a joyful moment for them to get that feedback.

Thank you all for sharing your stories and more so for all of the amazing work you are doing!

If you’re a teacher interested in learning more about R.E.A.L.® Discussion, visit conversationcomeback.org for Conversation Comeback: A Teacher’s Guide to Class Discussion in a Distracted, Divided World or learn more about our professional learning opportunities, such as workshops, trainings, and retreats.

This article originally appeared in the Winter 2026 edition of Independent School magazine, published by the NAIS. In it, Liza Garonzik explores The Other AI: Authentic Interaction and makes the case that discussion, listening, and real-time conversation are no longer optional in an AI-shaped world. They are essential.

Today’s students are growing up in a world that doesn’t ask them to have real live conversations. They can text instead of talk, ask a bot instead of a friend, swipe away something they don’t like, use self-checkout to avoid a cashier, or tune it all out with a pair of enormous, humanity-canceling headphones. 

And yet, human skills—like the ability to interact authentically in a face-to-face conversation—are more critical than ever. Young people need discussion skills to engage academically, build strong relationships, and participate in democracy. This much we know.

But what’s also suddenly clear is that students are going to need discussion skills to make sense of the increasingly AI-driven world around them. The digital infinity that surrounds them daily demands that they engage with peers and adults about very big questions: What is ethical, online and off? Where is the line between human and machine? Who is responsible for AI? Where does authenticity matter, and where is it inefficient? What do I do when I make a mistake with AI? 

To date, much of the discourse about AI in schools has focused on policy development, skill-building, and thoughtful curricular integration. These are all worthy, urgent goals. But creating systems to strengthen the uniquely human skills that are needed to navigate an AI-era must be on the agenda, too. 

Independent schools are uniquely positioned to embrace these human power skills alongside AI imperatives. Small class sizes, place-based cultures, and long-standing commitments to whole-child education create the perfect context to double down on human skills. 

But here’s the challenge: Schools often assume that they are already doing this work when, in reality, most aren’t doing this strategically or equitably. The skillset for discussion is often taught everywhere and nowhere, cropping up in advisory, in a civil discourse activity, or in the classrooms of humanities teachers. When students miscommunicate, incidents are handled on a one-off basis by empathetic deans. But what if schools actually defined strategies for systematically teaching, assessing, and celebrating these deeply human, mission-aligned skills? 

The Struggles Are Real

As both an educator and founder who has worked with more than 80 independent schools to build discussion skills programs, I’ve seen firsthand the power of proactively cultivating Authentic Interaction. Deliberate instruction in and assessment of face-to-face discussion skills is a pretty simple way to transform student engagement and create a human-first school culture in an AI world. 

Building effective discussion skills programs for Gen Z and Gen Alpha students must begin with a deep curiosity about their lived experiences. What does real-world discussion actually feel like? How do cultural trends and technological realities influence their experiences? What is hard, scary, uncomfortable, natural, boring, or “cringey”? Through a decade of surveys, interviews, and research, I have identified three major challenges today’s students face when it comes to live discussion. 

Challenge #1: Digital Overload

Technoference—a term coined in 2014 by researcher Brandon T. McDaniel—describes the subtle and constant intrusion of screens, devices, and digital distractions into our in-person interactions. It is the default setting for today’s kids. As they manage communication across multiple media simultaneously, they struggle to differentiate between what’s appropriate online and in person. As veteran educator and AI expert Eric Hudson explains, new technologies are introducing “wholly new categories of conversation,” and kids are understandably tangled up in what’s appropriate where.

On social media, for example, students can disengage without consequence. Don’t like what you see? Scroll. Bored? Double the speed. Don’t want to comment? Lurk. See someone you don’t like? Swipe. These options don’t exist in person. Authentic Interaction requires patience, active listening (even if you don’t like the idea), interpreting nonverbal cues, and then replying respectfully in real time. These skills may be perfectly teachable, but they no longer feel instinctive to students who spend hours a day on social media.

AI presents students with yet another set of “conversational” dynamics that differ markedly from what’s appropriate in person. Students talk to bots very differently from how they would speak to a human, often completely unconcerned about the impact of their tone or words and comically impatient, constantly redirecting the bot until they get exactly what they want with a random “please” or “thank you.” But real conversations aren’t transactional or teleological like AI prompts. They require give-and-take, emotional intelligence, disciplined attention, and trust. This gap, what some experts call “friction,” requires skill and stamina that today’s students do not have without practice. 

While technoference may feel ubiquitous, it doesn’t have to be. To fight it, we need more than guiding values like “empathy” or “curiosity.” We need to translate those values into skills. We need a common language, skill-building routines, and evidence-based assessment practices across a developmental trajectory that makes the traditionally “soft” human skills, like discussion, explicit. This is how they become truly teachable, not just aspirational. 

Challenge #2: Diminished Attention Span

If you ask an educator how kids have changed in the past five years, comments about diminished attention spans or executive function struggles are likely to top the list. A 2015 TIME magazine article is credited with popularizing the notion that people have shorter attention spans than goldfish. While that has been refuted as scientific fact, the focus on reduced attention span is real. Neurologically, attention is the gateway to listening. With such limited attentional ability, students struggle to track ideas over time, which makes it all but impossible to do much more than share-and-stare.

Meanwhile, “executive dysfunction” has emerged as a term to describe a general decline in students’ ability to self-manage. This includes everything from organizing thoughts to working memory and self-regulation. Research from MindPrint Learning also shows that today’s students are struggling with lesser-known executive function capacities such as cognitive shifting, or the ability to transition between ideas or viewpoints post-pandemic. Across ages and stages, teachers see these challenges daily in discussions—in students with official ADD/ADHD diagnoses, certainly, but also in those without. 

Then there’s an additional layer of complication: Neurologically, feelings of anxiety can further sabotage these already-diminished attention spans and executive function capacities. It’s no surprise that many students find discussion inherently anxiety-inducing: It’s public, social, and sometimes even graded. When students experience anxiety during a discussion, they block out everything else (a phenomenon known as amygdala hijacking), short-circuiting Authentic Interaction.

The good news is that executive function is buildable, and feelings of anxiety are usually manageable, as any cognitive behavioral therapy-trained therapist will tell you. But tackling these challenges requires intentionally designed scaffolds and deliberate practice—lessons built on purposeful, predictable, and skill-based routines and reflection opportunities. Independent school faculty are creative and committed, but most do not have this background; school leaders must ensure that faculty have the training and tools to effectively meet these emergent student needs.  

Challenge #3: The Morality of Everything

While “political polarization” has become shorthand for describing yet another challenge today’s students face in having real discussions, my observation is that kids seem to be scared to talk about more than just politics. In R.E.A.L. Discussion surveys of more than 12,000 middle and high school students in independent schools about their experience having class discussions, we often see words like “scared” and “anxious” show up alongside “disagreement” and “difference.” One ninth grader shared this transcendent revelation: “I am learning it is possible to disagree with someone’s idea, not their whole entire identity.”

While political polarization is certainly relevant to today’s students, it’s also worth considering a broader phenomenon called emotivism, a meta-ethical framework where people navigate the world believing that “if you feel it, it is morally correct.” Put differently, emotions, not reason, define right and wrong. This lens explains a lotabout our current political climate, but it also suggests that kids are living in a world where everything feels moral or immoral, right or wrong, and intrinsically tied to their “whole entire identity.” Those judgments are often spontaneous, made in mere seconds. No wonder students are scared to speak up.

For educational leaders in an era of emotivism, the challenge is to create school cultures that value intellectual humility and approach mind-changing and perspective-taking as a natural part of the learning process. This is an advanced discussion skill that builds on foundational competencies in speaking, reasoning, and listening. It’s also one that AI can help students practice. It’s so counterculturalin today’s world that it will require constant modeling by teachers and leaders, including normalizing disagreement without identity threat. 

An Authentic Future 

It sounds ridiculous: Why do we need a strategy for teaching skills that are theoretically innate to humans? In today’s tech-centric world, it’s not that far out; it’s reality. The sooner we embrace it, the better. 

The exciting thing is that human skills like Authentic Interaction are perfectly teachable—and already inherently valued by independent school communities. Independent schools have an opportunity to claim human skills development as part of their strategic advantage and to deliver on it, immediately. 

Any school that has already begun a journey toward skills-based learning has a template to follow. Just consider how human skills and AI fluency fit into your existing frameworks. For schools less familiar with skills-based approaches, leadership teams can start to articulate a vision statement for how both human skills and AI fluency relate to school mission and the existing academic program. From there, schools can design many different paths, but common next steps might include writing a skills scope and sequence; engaging in professional development; designing an impact assessment strategy; and celebrating when better discussion skills create a human-centered culture in an AI world.  

This kind of thoughtful initiative management takes time. So what to do at school tomorrow? Start asking Gen Z and Gen Alpha students to talk (and write) about their experiences with authentic human interaction. Listen closely—and don’t laugh. When they run out of things to say, ask them about AI: What do they hope, fear, and already know? These are the conversations that sustain our shared humanity. 

If your school is ready to design a strategy for Authentic Interaction and Human Skills in AI World, or simply begin this conversation in your community, learn more and let’s talk.

Sidra Smith, Head of Professional Learning at R.E.A.L. Discussion, shares her perspective as an educator and leader who has spent years designing and leading faculty summer reading experiences across schools—and now supports teams in turning those experiences into meaningful, schoolwide professional learning.

For many years, spring marked my “summer reading” season. I’d narrow a shortlist, planning to use spring break to read and return ready to propose a book or a few options for faculty. I’d imagine the conversations my colleagues would have, certain they’d see their students in the text and want to talk about it together.

Then I’d work backward from August: ordering books, drafting questions, and considering how to group people for meaningful discussion. I’ve been lucky to work at schools willing to buy a book for every adult, a small but meaningful signal that their intellectual lives mattered. I still remember leading my first summer read, poring over A Hope in the Unseen and feeling both the weight and joy of shaping a shared experience.

Of course, it didn’t always land the same way. Some years, conversations ran long and spilled into hallways. In other years, people showed up politely but never quite took off. Across different schools and contexts, a clear pattern emerged: when summer reading worked, it wasn’t because of a perfect book. It was because the experience involved several important jobs at once.

That realization now shapes my work at R.E.A.L. Discussion. In professional learning with schools, we focus on designing shared experiences that intentionally do the same work:

• building culture across teams
• advancing strategic priorities
• modeling the kinds of discussion and thinking we want students to develop

Summer reading is culture-building.

At its best, summer reading creates a shared experience that cuts across roles and divisions. Teachers, coaches, administrators, and staff are all engaging with the same ideas, even if they interpret them differently. That shared experience quickly becomes shared language. Phrases from the book show up in meetings and hallway conversations, giving people shorthand for complex ideas about students, learning, and school culture.

When designed well, it also creates space for connection. Thoughtful grouping and strong questions allow colleagues who rarely sit together to have real conversations, not just logistical ones. Over time, that builds trust and strengthens relationships across the adult community in ways that are hard to manufacture otherwise.

Summer reading is strategy-in-action. 

Summer reading can also serve as an early entry point for strategic priorities. When a school names a focus like belonging, well-being, or student engagement, choosing a book in that lane gives faculty time to sit with those ideas before any formal initiative begins. It creates a low-stakes space to ask, “What would this actually look like with my students?”

The impact is rarely immediate or dramatic. Instead, it shows up in small but meaningful shifts: how people talk about attention, stress, success, or which students are thriving. Over time, those shifts accumulate and create a kind of soft launch for larger changes. By the time new structures or programs are introduced, the underlying ideas already feel familiar and shared.

Summer reading models important lessons for students. 

Summer reading also carries symbolic weight. When students see adults reading, referencing ideas, and engaging as learners, it offers a concrete model of what it means to keep growing intellectually. It reinforces that reading and reflection are not just student tasks, but lifelong practices.

For faculty, the experience signals something equally important. Providing a book, carving out time to read, and protecting time for conversation communicates that their intellectual lives matter. When the experience feels like an invitation into shared learning, not an obligation, it becomes a form of care, not just professional development.

When summer reading works, it’s not because everyone loved the book. It’s because it’s doing quiet, important work in the life of the school. That work looks something like this:

• Signaling that the school values faculty as thinkers by investing time, money, and attention in their intellectual lives.
• Giving faculty a shared experience across divisions, departments, and roles.
• Developing a shared language for talking about students, teaching, and school culture.
• Making mission statements and strategic priorities feel concrete and lived‑in, not just framed on a wall.
• Creating structured opportunities for real conversation and relationship‑building among adults who rarely sit together.
• Supporting professional growth and reading habits in a way that feels more invitational than evaluative.
• Modeling lifelong learning for students by letting them see that the adults in their community also read, wrestle with ideas, and change their minds.

At its best, faculty summer reading is one of the simplest ways schools can honor the intellectual lives of the adults who make everything else possible. It’s a relatively small investment, some books, some time, some thoughtful design, that can create shared experience, shared language, and a clearer connection between what we say we value and what actually happens once students walk through the doors.

Not everyone finishes the book, and not every conversation takes off. But over time, it can nudge school culture toward more curiosity, more coherence, and more care for the humans doing the work. That still feels worth planning for every spring.

If you’re thinking about how to approach summer reading this year, Conversation Comeback: A Schoolwide Guide to Discussion in a Distracted, Divided World offers a practical, schoolwide approach to doing this work with intention. The book contains chapter takeaways and reflection prompts for leaders, faculty, and community conversations. Order in bulk and we’ll send you a link to sign up for a 30-min Author Talk with Liza Garonzik. And if you’re looking for support in designing professional learning that actually sticks, you can learn more here: https://realdiscussion.org/services/

Thank you to Maggie Iuni for sharing her R.E.A.L. life with us! Maggie is an English teacher at Berkeley Carroll School in Brooklyn, NY. We loved hearing about Maggie’s experience using R.E.A.L. to help her students grow their curiosity and perspective-taking, and discover their own “why” when it comes to learning discussion skills. 

Name: Margaret “Maggie” Iuni

Hometown: Brooklyn, New York

Current School: At the Berkeley Carroll School, I teach “Literatures of Community”, which is our 9th-grade literature class. Last semester, I taught 10th-grade “Voice and Style”, which is our personal essay writing class. And then this semester, I have a new 12th-grade elective, which is called “The Marriage Plot and Rom-Coms”, which has been fun.

Thinking back to when you were a student, how would you describe yourself in three words?

I’m going with “curious, enthusiastic, and diligent.”

When it comes to discussion, what is your “why”? What feels compelling and important about teaching these particular skills?

I went to Brooklyn College for undergrad, and while I was there, my professors had a really heavy emphasis on critical literacy. One of the things they instilled in me is that my why actually isn’t the thing that matters. What matters is the student’s why, and so my why is actually helping them discover their own.

To me, the whole point of these discussions is helping students figure out why does this matter to them. Because if you can’t figure that out, you’re going to think that this is the most boring thing in the world. 

And why would you bother going to English class if you can’t understand that this actually has an impact on your life, right? It’s not necessarily the plot of the book, but the ideas in the book are something that could be meaningful to you. I try to really center on that and ask them, “Why does this matter to you?” Why do these ideas resonate with you? Something that I love about R.E.A.L. Discussion is that it centers student voices and doesn’t say, “Oh, that’s something that we shouldn’t be talking about, we should only be talking about the text, we should only be talking about history class”. Instead, the Relate skill explicitly says, you should be thinking about how this relates to your own experiences in your own life, and I think that that’s really powerful.

That’s such a wonderful way of putting it, especially for kids. 

It’s funny because the kids struggle with the format of R.E.A.L. A lot of them report in the surveys that it’s so unnatural, so scripted. My response to them is, first of all, if it’s too scripted, that’s because your prep work is written in full sentences. And second of all, if you’re uncomfortable with the format, I hear that. They’re right; it isn’t natural, but the structure is there for a reason.

We just made it through the end of Cycle 2 a couple of weeks ago. Some students say they wish we didn’t have to do all this extra stuff, but they 100% have grown into the format. Now they report that they’re listening better and taking notes better. So it’s about exposing them to a level of discomfort that’s truly very accessible and that they will have to figure out how to integrate into their life as academic students. 

Now that you’ve used R.E.A.L. Discussion in your class for a couple of years, do you feel like you can identify a time of the year when you see a turning point for the kids and their skill development? 

Yes, I think so. We read four complete books throughout the year, but the first conversation that we have, no matter what we would be doing it on, is about learning the format. It’s not really going to be the best conversation of all time. In fact, think that’s true for the entire first cycle. 

Once we get through the structures, they kind of realize that the structures have value. They roll with it, and then we can do more beyond that. Then Cycle 2 is really where it kicks off. This year, the kids really liked dissecting The Prime of Miss Jean Brody in their R.E.A.L. Discussions and the structure paid off. This novel is a nasty little book because the narrator is completely unreliable and on the side of this really terrible teacher, who is literally a blatant fascist, and who influences the students in terrible ways. This book is brilliant and is truly a masterclass on what a sentence can do. She has these little pernicious sentences that are so good. 

It takes a while, but by the third cycle, you start to see them use the skills more fluidly—they relate, ask strong questions, and use nonverbal cues so naturally they don’t even realize they’re doing it.

That’s so wonderful to hear. Thinking back to your first R.E.A.L. Discussion, was there anything you were worried about beforehand? Were there any surprises or unexpected successes?

I was totally terrified. I kept wondering—what was I supposed to do? How do I stay hands-off but still support them?

My first R.E.A.L. Discussion was last school year, in September 2024. I thought, we’ll just see how it goes. I was honestly shocked by how long they could talk when you give them the space, and how on task they stayed with those little accountability tools—note-taking, the timer on the board. (They’re very good at tracking their own time!) What surprised me most was how completely they rose to the prompt.

Now that I’ve done this twice, I think the real success comes when they finish that first conversation saying, “We don’t need this anymore—we can just have normal conversations.” That’s when I know it’s working, even if they don’t realize it yet. They feel confident enough to think they don’t need the structure—but they still do. That, to me, should feel empowering for other educators: it means you’ve created a space where their voices actually work. The format is just there to hold that growth until they can carry it themselves. 

That really rings true. I think a lot of teachers worry about that first discussion. The kids can be resistant to the NVCs. And it’s natural for teachers to wonder whether they are doing it right.

It’s challenging for teachers to let the kids go off and talk. You don’t have to listen to every single thing, but a lot of teachers are so anxious about that: Can I make sure the kids get what we need out of it if they talk without me being there?

The only thing that I grade for R.E.A.L. Discussions is their prep work because that’s the part that shows the groundwork thinking.  I want them to practice the skills of note-taking without writing everything line by line. I want them to be able to have flexibility in conversation while being prepared. 

By doing the prep work, when they come to class, they will be much more prepared and have much more fruitful conversations. And so, for me, if I know that their prep work is done, then I can feel a lot more confident in letting them go talk.

Right—otherwise you wouldn’t know if they’d reached a real processing level.

Yes, and to the point about not always knowing if everyone has grasped something in a class discussion—what I love to do, especially during high-stress times like midterms, finals, or the end of a quarter, is collect the shoutouts students have received. I pull them from end-of-cycle reflections and even from notes or journal entries. Then, I share some of the comments anonymously, so they don’t know who said what, but they can see how their classmates appreciated their ideas. It’s a small way to remind them that others see their insight, humor, and thoughtfulness. Giving them that little confidence boost right when they need it most is really fun.

That’s so awesome! Have you seen any student “breakthroughs” or “ah-ha moments”? 

I’ve seen two ends of the spectrum this year, and something similar happened last year, too. One student is naturally outgoing, and they are supremely invested. Early on, they tended to dominate discussions. I think they felt any dead airtime was their responsibility to fill. 

As part of the debrief, I always ask: Whose voice did you hear the most? Whose voice did you hear the least? And I have them reflect on that. In their most recent survey, that student wrote, “I’ve gotten much better at sharing airtime and being a much more active listener. I’ve realized my voice is not the only one I need to be paying attention to.” I thought, amazing—love that.

On the other end, I have one of the quietest students I’ve ever taught. They still struggle with getting into the R.E.A.L. Discussions. But one thing that’s been really empowering for that student is that all the other students consistently give them the most shoutouts. Even if they only speak twice in a 25–30 minute conversation, the thing they said is what sticks out to their peers.

R.E.A.L. is going to be different for every student because each student has different strengths and challenges. What I love about it is that the entire spectrum of students – from the most talkative to the least talkative – can find something to take away from this practice and celebrate about themselves and their classmates.

That’s so cool to hear about the growth on both sides of the spectrum, especially about the student who didn’t speak much. I think self-silencing is also very common. 

I agree. Some think, “I can only share if it’s perfect.” R.E.A.L. helps with that. One of my favorite stats on my dashboard is how many students have said that they are willing to change their minds as we go through this. I’m lucky that Berkeley Carroll has a truly amazing community, and our kids are mostly very kind to each other. But it’s really wonderful to see that they can go into a discussion thinking, “This is my opinion and everything that I say is right,” and then by the end of the discussion, recognize that there are other perspectives.

How amazing for a 9th or 10th grader to go into a class thinking that something they hear from a peer might change their mind and that they might learn from them!

That’s one of the things I really like; it ties into my top three learning goals for discussion.

Last question: Do you have a favorite quote or one that has been inspiring to you lately? 

I find inspiration in everything! As an English teacher, I really do feel like you can find inspiration from anywhere. As I’m starting to think about prepping Sula for the fourth quarter, I’ve been thinking a lot about Toni Morrison’s quote, ”If you are free, you need to free somebody else.” And I’ve been thinking a lot about that in terms of what does that mean to a society? What does that mean to me? How are we defining free? And how can I help empower others in that way? I might not be able to free somebody economically, but how can I empower this person to understand a little bit more about who they are, where they come from, and what they want out of life?

That quote has been sticking with me. It’s something that I’ve been inspired by and still try to parse out.

Feels like that comes full circle back to your why.

Yes. It does! 

It was such a delight to get to talk with you, Maggie. Thank you for sharing your R.E.A.L. wisdom with us! 

If you’re a teacher interested in learning more about R.E.A.L.® Discussion, visit conversationcomeback.org for Conversation Comeback: A Teacher’s Guide to Class Discussion in a Distracted, Divided World or learn more about our professional learning opportunities, such as workshops, trainings, and retreats.

How should schools respond when the conditions for learning—and for human interaction—are shifting in real time?

These questions are showing up everywhere.

Educators and school leaders are noticing the same patterns: Students are capable, thoughtful, and engaged in many ways, yet they are navigating challenges that make it harder to focus, communicate, and fully participate in shared learning experiences.

These are not isolated issues.

They reflect deeper shifts in how Gen Z and Gen Alpha learners process information, relate to one another, and make sense of the world around them.

If we want to respond effectively, we have to look beneath the surface.

In Conversation Comeback, we identify four core challenges that help explain what’s happening and what students need from schools now.

1. Technoference: When Digital Norms Disrupt Real Conversation

Technology has fundamentally reshaped how students communicate.

Today’s learners move seamlessly across texts, DMs, comments, and feeds, each with its own norms. They are used to reacting quickly, stepping away from conversations, or engaging without consequence.

But face-to-face discussion requires something different:

• sustained attention
• nonverbal awareness
• real-time thinking and response

Many students struggle to distinguish between on-screen and in-person communication. What feels natural online can feel uncomfortable or even risky in a classroom discussion.

2. Emotivism: When Disagreement Feels Personal

In today’s culture, feelings and beliefs are often intertwined.

This makes academic discussion more difficult. When ideas feel tied to identity, disagreement can feel like a personal attack rather than an intellectual exchange.

Students are navigating:

• heightened emotional expression
• polarized public discourse
• limited models of productive disagreement

As a result, many students avoid discussion altogether.

Without explicit instruction in how to separate ideas from identity and engage across difference, meaningful conversation is hard to sustain.

3. Diminished Attention: The Barrier to Listening and Learning

Attention is the foundation of effective communication.

But Gen Z learners are developing in environments shaped by:

• short-form content
• constant notifications
• rapid task-switching

In the classroom, this shows up clearly:

• difficulty tracking multi-step conversations
• surface-level responses instead of deeper thinking
• challenges with active listening

Cognitive science is clear: Multitasking is a myth. What students experience as multitasking is actually constant switching, which reduces comprehension and weakens memory.

Without sustained attention, student engagement in discussion breaks down.

4. Executive Function Gaps: The Hidden Demands of Discussion

Strong classroom discussion depends on more than ideas.

Students must be able to:

• organize their thinking
• hold multiple perspectives at once
• decide when and how to contribute
• adjust their thinking in real time

These are executive function skills, and many students need more support developing them.

In a high-distraction, high-pressure environment, these demands can feel overwhelming. For students experiencing anxiety, even entering a conversation can be difficult.

Why This Matters for Schools Right Now

Taken together, these four challenges—technoference, emotivism, diminished attention, and executive function gaps—help explain why classroom discussion is more difficult than it used to be.

If we continue to treat discussion as something students should already know how to do, we will continue to see uneven participation, shallow engagement, and missed learning opportunities.

And once we name the challenge, we can respond to it.

From Conversation Crisis to Conversation Comeback

The central idea behind Conversation Comeback is simple:

Discussion skills are not intuitive, but they are teachable.

When schools approach discussion as a core academic skill, they can begin to:

• explicitly teach listening and speaking
• scaffold participation and idea-building
• create structured opportunities for practice
• build a shared language for conversation across classrooms

Over time, discussion becomes more than participation. It becomes a disciplined, academic practice that strengthens thinking, learning, and connection.

This is the work of R.E.A.L.® Discussion. R.E.A.L. is not a one-off strategy or a set of discussion prompts. It is a research-informed, practice-proven approach to building communication skills with the same level of rigor we apply to reading and writing, built in partnership with more than 100 schools.

Build a Conversation Culture

If these challenges feel familiar, you are not alone. Schools across the country are asking the same question: How do we rebuild strong student discussion skills in today’s world?

Start with the book.
Conversation Comeback offers a clear, actionable framework for teaching discussion in today’s classrooms. You’ll find a version for K-12 humanities teachers and a schoolwide version for leaders, faculty, and family at conversationcomeback.org.

Start the conversation with us.
If you’re thinking about how to bring this work to your school or across your team, we’d love to talk. From classroom practice to schoolwide strategy, we help schools build a true culture of conversation.

Because this moment calls for more than awareness. It calls for a Conversation Comeback.

School leaders and teachers see the Conversation Crisis every day. Students arrive academically capable, but when it is time to engage in real discussion, something happens. Participation feels risky. Silence feels safer. Community breaks down. It is the predictable result of a screen-saturated, polarized, AI-shaped world.

Enter Conversation Comeback.: A Teacher’s Guide to Class Discussion in a Distracted, Divided World — a new book by R.E.A.L.® Discussion founder and CEO Liza Garonzik

Grounded in more than a decade of work with schools across the country, the book equips educators with a research-informed, practice-proven framework for teaching the foundationally human skills like discussion intentionally.

We’re encouraged and honored by the response from early readers, whose words whose words affirm both the urgency of this moment and the practicality of the approach.

“A ‘what do we do about this challenge’ solution-oriented book for the present moment.” — Michael Horn

“A coherent, actionable system for building essential human skills.” —Jeff Wetzler

“A guidebook that belongs in every teacher’s toolkit.” — Grant Lichtman

“A timely, practical blueprint for strengthening how students learn, lead, and connect.” — Megan D. Cover

“A plan for teaching the most foundational, human, necessary, and AI-proof skills.” — Claire Goldsmith

“The antidote we need.” — Danielle Heard

“A balm for our digitally intermediated times.” — Peter Nilsson 

“A teachable framework for building discussion skills that strengthen uniquely human capacities.” — Margarita O’Byrne Curtis

“A refreshing reminder of what it means to be human and authentic.” — Bradford Gioia

“An energetic, practical, can-do guide.” —Bart Griffith

Why This Book Matters

The Conversation Crisis is real. In a screen-saturated world, students rarely get authentic opportunities to practice live, human-to-human conversation. They can text instead of talk. Ask a bot instead of a friend. Post into an algorithm-fueled echo chamber. Tune out with headphones.

Meanwhile, in classrooms, we ask them to engage in meaningful discussion.

Class discussion is bigger than academics. It is one of the few spaces where students can build essential human skills — listening, empathy, curiosity, and critical thinking — that matter for learning, life, and society.

As AI reshapes what students can produce, teachers must double down on what students can practice.

What Conversation Comeback Offers

For more than a decade, R.E.A.L.® Discussion has worked with over 100 schools to build a research-informed, practice-proven approach to teaching and assessing discussion skills. In Conversation Comeback, that approach is made accessible to any educator ready to begin.

R.E.A.L.® breaks discussion into four skills — Relate, Excerpt, Ask, and Listen — turning discussion into a teachable, learnable, and measurable practice.

With clear strategies and frameworks, this book equips educators to foster authentic conversation, deeper learning, and stronger classroom communities in a tech-driven and AI-forward world.” Debra Wilson, NAIS President

Teaching discussion is not just a pedagogical choice. It is a strategic one. This is not just about better discussion. Each class discussion is a step closer to a future rich with real, human connection.

Beyond the school day, our shared future depends on teaching today’s students the discussion skills they need to transcend the Conversation Crisis.

That said, Conversation Comeback is not an endpoint. It is the beginning of a broader movement to restore discussion as a core academic practice and a cornerstone of human connection in schools.

Start here. And let’s keep the conversation going.

If You’re Already Part of the REAL Community

So many of you are already partners or long-time champions of this work. This book is as much yours as it is ours!

Here are meaningful ways you can support Conversation Comeback:

• Leave an honest review on Amazon , Blue Hat, or GoodReads. Verified reviews make an enormous difference in helping new educators discover the book.
• Share the link with a colleague, department chair, or head of school.
• Make Conversation Comeback your summer read. More info coming soon on our new edition, written especially for a broader faculty and community-wide audience.
• Post a reflection or connection to REAL in your school on LinkedIn and tag R.E.A.L.® Discussion.

Here’s the CONVERSATION COMEBACK ahead!

On The Purpose and Practice of K-12 Humanities Teaching in Today’s World, Co-written by Humanities Educators | 2026

Schools are moving quickly to adopt AI. New policies are being drafted. New tools are being piloted. Professional development is focused on integration and regulation. All of this work matters. But as the AI conversation accelerates, something is missing.

Humanities teachers have had little time to step back and interrogate the larger issues about pedagogy, childhood, and humanity in an AI world. What is the enduring purpose of reading, writing, and discussion? What must remain deeply human? What shifts in classroom practice, not just policy, are required and why?

R.E.A.L.® Discussion created space for that conversation, convening a collaborative of K–12 humanities educators and academic leaders to engage these foundational questions together. Over two months, participants read, wrote, reflected, and discussed what it means to teach the humanities at this pivotal moment.

The result is Humanities and Humanity in an AI World: An Educator’s Manifesto — a co-constructed declaration about reading, writing, discussion, and the lived experience of being a humanities teacher today.

“We cannot let the AI conversation stay only at the level of tools,” said Liza Garonzik, Founder of R.E.A.L.® Discussion. “The real question is not simply what AI can do, but what only humans can do. We are already living through a conversation crisis. Students are more screen-bound and less practiced in live dialogue. This manifesto reflects the shared belief that educators have the expertise and daily influence to cultivate uniquely human capacities. If we intentionally teach students to read deeply, write clearly, and engage in real discussion, we are not pushing back against the future; we are guiding it. This is our opportunity to lead a true Conversation Comeback.”

We offer this manifesto as an invitation. If your school is ready to move beyond tactical AI conversations and into foundational ones, we encourage you to read the document, share it with your team, and use the reflection questions on the final page to begin your own discussion.

At R.E.A.L.® Discussion, we help schools translate conversations like these into coherent, skills-based practice. If you are ready to build a deliberate approach to reading, writing, and discussion in an AI-shaped world, we would welcome the opportunity to partner with you. Find a time to chat here.

We hope you’ll join us on LinkedIn for the conversation about the Manifesto.

Thank you to Anastacia Ike-Foreman for sharing her R.E.A.L. life with us! Anastacia is a seventh and tenth-grade English teacher at Tarbut V’Torah Community Day School (TVT) in Irvine, CA. She shared her perspective that listening is the heart of discussion and that structured dialogue helps her students move beyond black‑and‑white thinking toward more nuanced critical reasoning. This interview has been lightly edited for clarity. 

Name: Anastacia Ike-Foreman

Hometown: Costa Mesa in Orange County, California (though I spent 10 years in Charlotte, North Carolina and Rock Hill, South Carolina).

Current School: I teach seventh- and tenth-grade English at Tarbut V’Torah Community Day School, an independent Jewish day school in Irvine, California.

Can you describe yourself as a student, in three words or phrases?

Undiagnosed ADHD, very talkative, and a struggling reader.

Who was your favorite teacher and why?

My third-grade teacher, Miss Plumbo, was my favorite because every day after recess, she would bring us in and read us a picture book by an author like Tomie dePaola or one with beautiful illustrations. As a kid who didn’t really like reading words on a page, I really engaged with this form of reading. She brought those stories to life by reading them to us. I really liked her creative teaching style.

When it comes to discussion, what is your “why”? What feels compelling and important about teaching these particular skills?

When it comes to discussion, there is a piece of humanity there: seeing the state of things in our world, looking at social media, looking at how people interact in all forms of media, watching my own family have their crazy discussions, and then thinking, Could we come to a place of understanding each other? Could we come to a place where we actually get somewhere and learn from each other, rather than proving a point in a civil way?

That was sort of my big a-ha. I started by taking Deep Listening, a program by the Stanley King Institute, which I found very helpful. I had many kids coming to me and talking to me, and I was wondering, “How do I help them?” I realized it was more about listening than fixing anything. And so, fast-forward: coming back to school, I thought, What if I could get kids to listen to each other? What if I listened better to my family? What if society started listening to each other? 

Although it’s a discussion, I think the magic is in the listening, because it helps us learn about each other, about who we are, and to respect and appreciate each other for our differences and individuality. Academically, discussion is a very important tool because it allows students to put their ideas together on the spot, creating meaning by going deeper than they ever would have if they were to think through the process individually.

And I think that, especially, my middle school students have a hard time seeing things in black and white. They say, here is my point – ta-da!  Discussion helps them to develop their critical thinking skills and challenge each other’s and their own ideas. Especially in literature, it’s crucial to move away from this concept of what is the right answer and toward considering all the possible answers. There’s room for more than one truth when it comes to literature and the humanities. You can hold onto your perspective and still hold space for someone else’s experience. Two things can be true.

I think that’s really well said! What would you say your two or three top learning goals are for your seventh graders? What do those goals look like for your tenth graders?

With my seventh graders, my biggest goal is to help them ask questions respectfully. Asking questions helps them move beyond black-and-white thinking and dig deeper into what the other person is thinking. For example, they can ask themselves, “Did I hear the other person correctly?” and “Where did that person get the evidence to come to that place?”

This week, one of my kids responded to a comment with “I disagree.” I said, “actually let’s try that again. Ask them a question.” And she said, “Okay, well, you said this, and I just, I don’t see how you came to that understanding.” The other person said, “That’s not what I meant to say. What I meant was …”  It was this ‘aha moment’ for everyone. Asking questions gives the other person a chance to rephrase what they’re saying, which is a huge skill, and then reach a point of reasoning. 

I think it’s really cool to have those moments, debrief them, and then say, next time, come from a perspective, enter with curiosity, rather than immediately getting upset that somebody disagreed with what you thought.

What about for your 10th graders? What does discussion look like in terms of their learning goals? 

With the tenth graders, I think asking questions and listening are still the main goals, but they look different from those in seventh grade. They’re practicing building on their own ideas or jumping in with their own evidence in response to what someone else says. And when someone asks a question or introduces a piece of evidence, the tenth graders take time to explore it, rather than just acknowledging that someone spoke and then moving on. Sometimes discussions can sound like, “Okay, now I speak and bring up a new thing.” And I’ll say, no, let’s pause. Let’s take that apart a little bit before moving on to what someone else has to say. Because we’re going to miss a lot of really insightful conversations if the students keep bouncing around.

Another big thing with them is the evidence piece. I’ve explained that bringing in evidence—actually turning to the same page and reading the passage together—isn’t just a protocol. Just because you read something and interpreted it a certain way doesn’t mean everyone else will interpret it the same way. 

Going back to the page and seeing it in context gives everyone a chance to understand how someone else is reading that evidence, which can lead to a more meaningful conversation. You might say, “I saw it this way, but could it also mean this?” So instead of just taking what someone says at face value, we pause and do an “evidence check.” That slows things down and helps everyone really think.

I think that the practice of slowing down and considering the evidence is really preparing them for the real world. They’re going to be handed a ballot one day and told, “These are the facts.” But I want them to have the instinct to pause and say, “Hold on, let’s look a little closer.” It’s about learning to think for yourself, not just accepting something because someone else said it.

This type of practice is also an important skill for navigating AI. The world has changed so quickly – even compared to when we used to talk about critical thinking or media literacy five or ten years ago. Now we have to ask, “Why is the algorithm feeding me this?” AI systems are built on data, and that data always carries bias. So we can’t just take everything AI produces as fact. We have to slow down, question what we’re seeing, and notice what might be shaping it. I love the idea of slowing down and focusing — of really tackling issues rather than just checking a box.

Take us back to the first R.E.A.L. Discussion you led. What were you worried about going into that first discussion? 

I’m going to step back even farther, before even starting a discussion method at all. My fear was losing control, not being the one guiding them, and having them devolve into chaos as they all talk over each other, start totally misinterpreting things, and lose track of our skill focus. To be honest, the biggest thing was “I’m not going to have control over what I need them to get.” That was probably my biggest fear.

I think that’s a pretty common one. How did that fear shift or change, or that perception change? Are there systems that you have developed to be able to navigate that? 

Yes, I’ve definitely developed systems for that. I think R.E.A.L. provides a well-structured approach that eliminates much of that fear. But I will also say my perspective completely changed. I shifted from feeling like “I need these kids to get here” to “these kids are actually teaching me things.” Their process of making meaning is more important than what I’ve already discovered or what I want them to know. Because if I just shut up and let them talk, they blow my mind every time. I’ve learned that the less I talk, the more they learn, the more they grow, and the more they blow me away with things I had never thought of.

And that’s not to say that I completely lose track of the discussion question.  I still guide them back to the discussion question in a common text, but in terms of thinking, they might come up with something that hasn’t been considered before, something more relevant to our context today. 

Can we zoom in a little bit deeper on the topic of the kids blowing you away? Is there a particular moment that comes to mind that you’ve experienced when a student had a breakthrough in discussion?

Yes. This one is a little heavy, but last year, when we were discussing [S.E. Hinton’s] The Outsiders, and one of the questions was about how losing people affected their character, how it changed their choices, how it changed their relationships with others in the book. One of my students, who had recently lost a parent, felt safe enough to say: I actually relate to this because I lost my parent. This student was not one to talk about the situation very much, but they shared that when they lost their parent, they felt that they went through sort of the same thing that Pony Boy went through and the rage that Dally’s going through. The student added, “I think that loss 100% can affect your choices, because I see myself in these characters,” and the other students fell silent. And I’m thinking, “Oh my gosh, his could go one of many ways.” And immediately, a friend of the kid asked, “Does it have to be losing people through death?” I said, no, and then that student shared, “Even though I haven’t lost anyone, I hear you, because I’ve gone through things where I feel like I don’t have anyone at home, and I really rely on my friends to give me the family structure. That helps me understand their character and why they stuck together as The Outsiders; because they were family, they didn’t have a mom and dad that they could rely on.”

And from there, almost everyone jumped in, sharing how they appreciated the relating both students gave, or offering their own experience to share. They came up with something so rich that it can’t be replicated. To see, more than anything, the safety that these kids created with each other, to be able to share these really intense, deep moments and have trust that they were going to be held by their classmates, is beyond anything academic I could hope for. And this is seventh grade! Seventh grade! What a beautiful thing!

What an incredible experience. Were you on the verge of tears? 

I had chills. I was crying and trying to keep it together. But I also felt it was okay if they saw me cry; you know, I’m a human being. I don’t need to just sit here like a news reporter. My relationship with my students is much more authentic as well. It’s okay for them to see that I have feelings and that I feel for them and that I love them.

I just want to love these kids, so I feel like teaching English gives me a way to reach them and stay flexible with that. There’s the humanity in all of it.

That is truly beautiful. Thank you for sharing. Our final two questions are slightly less deep. First, what advice would you give to a new teacher who’s on the cusp of starting their first R.E.A.L. Discussion? 

I would say start slow and simple. Take a little bit at a time. You don’t have to roll out the whole thing on day one.  Liza shared that we should think about the big picture at first. Give them some time to think, discuss, reflect, and give each other shout-outs.

And I would say go with that approach. Then use the hand signals, as they will keep kids on track and prevent them from talking over each other. And also the nonverbal “I agree” sign. Thinking big picture would be the way to start, and then with my seventh graders, we first focused on what it means to Relate, and then we really focused on just Relating in the first discussion. Then, in the second discussion, once we know Relate, we’ll add Excerpt.  We roll one skill at a time, then practice. Eventually, they’re doing everything. But I think for at least my seventh graders, it was important that we practice each skill rather than front-load them with everything at first. 

Final question: What is inspiring you right now? Do you have a favorite quote or book you’ve been reading?

I do a lot of reading and thinking, but one thing I’ll share isn’t necessarily the most inspiring. We use MAP [Measures of Academic Progress] testing.  One of our curriculum leaders was going through the readiness skills with each of the kids, and that gave me an idea. I started thinking about grouping students for discussion questions that target the same skill, but differentiating the questions based on their readiness levels.

So, for example, if we’re working on a theme, Group 1 might focus on What is the theme? Group 2 might look at How is the theme is proven? And Group 3 might explore How does the theme develop? They’re all working on the same overarching skill, but their discussion questions are different.

Then, after working in groups, everyone returns to the whole-class discussion to share their evidence. That way, all students get to access the text and the learning at a level that’s right for them. Everyone’s part of the same conversation; they’re learning from each other, but the differentiation gives each student a real stepping stone into the discussion. That’s something I’ve been inspired by lately and am thinking about trying—it’s a little new for us.

It was so wonderful speaking with you, Anastacia! Thank you for inspiring us with your ideas and innovative and caring approach to discussion!

If you’re a teacher interested in learning more about R.E.A.L.® Discussion, visit conversationcomeback.org for Conversation Comeback: A Teacher’s Guide to Class Discussion in a Distracted, Divided World or learn more about our professional learning opportunities, such as workshops, trainings, and retreats.

At R.E.A.L.® Discussion, understanding how higher education approaches dialogue and discourse gives us a glimpse of what lies ahead for our K-12 students. The habits we build in middle and high school shape how young people show up as thinkers and community members for life. That starts with intentionally teaching how to actively listen, articulate ideas, question assumptions, and make meaning together. 

I reached out to Kristi Clemens, Executive Director of Dartmouth Dialogues at Dartmouth and co-author of From Safe Spaces to Brave Spaces, to learn how those same goals are coming to life on campus through Dartmouth Dialogues. 

Liza Garonzik: I’m excited to hear about Dartmouth Dialogues, but first, tell us about your path. Why do you believe in dialogue? 

Kristi Clemens: Thank you for inviting me. One of the joys of this work is connecting with people outside of higher education. We know we’re just one moment in a person’s larger education journey. 

Speaking of that journey, I’m a first-generation college student who never expected to build a career in higher ed. As an undergrad, I worked in admissions and residence life and found my calling in helping students grow. I tend to find the most joy in problem-solving work, so I sometimes describe myself as the person who runs towards the fire rather than away from it, and that’s been a theme in various higher ed roles for more than 25 years now.

That perspective shapes how I see today’s students. When they show up on our campus, it’s often the first time they’re confronted with something unexpected, and they aren’t sure how to handle it. They struggle with having uncomfortable conversations or talking through important decisions. These moments of friction and growth are pivotal, yet more often, I see students opt out when faced with uncertainty. Instead of problem-solving or seeking help, they outsource decisions or avoid hard conversations together. Their communication skills have precipitously decreased over the past decade.

And nationally, our discourse isn’t offering healthy models. If not higher education, who will teach these skills? As a first-generation graduate whose life was changed by access and challenge, I take that responsibility seriously.

That certainly resonates with our view at R.E.A.L.® Discussion, where we talk a lot about the opportunity teachers have to ensure their students graduate high school and enter today’s rapidly changing world with essential communication skills. Turning to Dartmouth Dialogues: what’s the origin story, the goals, and what does programming look like?

Kristi: Many colleges are rethinking how to teach dialogue and discourse, but Dartmouth began this work earlier. In 2019, Dean of the Faculty Elizabeth Smith noticed faculty struggling to spark deep classroom discussion and to navigate conflict with one another. She convened a small group to explore how other institutions were teaching constructive dialogue and drafted a proposal for what became the Dartmouth Dialogue Project.

The pandemic paused progress, but the idea gained momentum when President Sian Beilock arrived in 2023. Having led similar work at Barnard, she immediately saw its potential. Later that year, as global events renewed the urgency for difficult conversations, particularly following October 7, Dartmouth’s Jewish Studies and Middle Eastern Studies departments modeled what constructive engagement could look like through public panels on Israel and Gaza. Their example helped shape Dartmouth Dialogues, officially launched in January 2024.

Today, the initiative brings dialogue practice into every corner of campus, from the Dickey Center’s Middle East Dialogues to the Rockefeller Center’s political conversations to student-led debates through the Dartmouth Political Union. With partners like the Constructive Dialogue Institute and StoryCorps’ One Small Step, the goal is simple but ambitious: to make dialogue a shared skill set, not a side program. We want “surround sound” across campus, not a “dialogue house.” 

You’re right. Too often, dialogue is opt-in, missing those who need it most and creating echo chambers. We use a “Conversation Lab” analogy, like the computer labs that once taught every student to type. Imagine if discussion skills were taught with the same intentionality. 

Kristi: We definitely agree—intentionality matters, especially for today’s students. Our Gen Z students bring perspectives shaped by COVID and today’s political climate. They want change but often don’t know where to start. From day one, we set the expectation that dialogue is part of being in this community and give them brave spaces to practice. 

Students value it, and some choose Dartmouth for it, yet time is a real barrier. Our 10-week quarters move fast. They want these skills but can’t add more to their plates, which reinforces the need to integrate dialogue into existing courses and experiences.

Looking ahead, we’re exploring ways to anchor this work in the first-year writing program, seminars, and our residential house communities. Building trust takes time, but students consistently tell us they want dialogue embedded, not treated as an add-on.

We see the same gap: the desire is there, the skills aren’t, and time is scarce. Live conversation is rarely the most efficient, which is why protecting time matters.

Kristi: I think that’s why we’re seeing many pitches for AI chatbots as dialogue tools. Sure, some AI tools can help, but they can reinforce unhelpful habits. My own seventh-grader rarely meets friends face-to-face; they text and trade voice notes. The norms we’re allowing to solidify concern me.

That’s why I appreciate K–12 partners who interrupt those norms: phone-free schools, prompts to talk to one another, and more typing and writing rather than dictation. Small interventions can steer us back toward healthy interpersonal interaction, though we still need to learn how to scale what works.

K–12 colleagues like Eric Hudson point out that human–AI interaction is a “new category of conversation.” We’ll need language for it and clarity about how it differs from human dialogue. AI has compelling use cases, and face-to-face conversation has biological ones. We can outsource tasks and pursue efficiency, but if we cannot be good friends, partners, debaters, or collaborators, we lose essential social fitness.

Kristi: Yes, I think about late-night residence hall debates that challenged ideas for the fun of it. But on small campuses these days, a single misstep can follow a student, chilling discourse. Even so, there’s something rejuvenating about face-to-face exchange that challenges and is challenged in return. I hope we find ways to preserve that energy.

We absolutely share that hope at R.E.A.L. It’s not just about conversation; it’s about preparing them for citizenship, leadership, and life. To keep the conversation going, follow R.E.A.L.® Discussion on LinkedIn.