This article originally appeared in the Winter 2026 edition of Independent School magazine, published by the NAIS. In it, Liza Garonzik explores The Other AI: Authentic Interaction and makes the case that discussion, listening, and real-time conversation are no longer optional in an AI-shaped world. They are essential.

Today’s students are growing up in a world that doesn’t ask them to have real live conversations. They can text instead of talk, ask a bot instead of a friend, swipe away something they don’t like, use self-checkout to avoid a cashier, or tune it all out with a pair of enormous, humanity-canceling headphones. 

And yet, human skills—like the ability to interact authentically in a face-to-face conversation—are more critical than ever. Young people need discussion skills to engage academically, build strong relationships, and participate in democracy. This much we know.

But what’s also suddenly clear is that students are going to need discussion skills to make sense of the increasingly AI-driven world around them. The digital infinity that surrounds them daily demands that they engage with peers and adults about very big questions: What is ethical, online and off? Where is the line between human and machine? Who is responsible for AI? Where does authenticity matter, and where is it inefficient? What do I do when I make a mistake with AI? 

To date, much of the discourse about AI in schools has focused on policy development, skill-building, and thoughtful curricular integration. These are all worthy, urgent goals. But creating systems to strengthen the uniquely human skills that are needed to navigate an AI-era must be on the agenda, too. 

Independent schools are uniquely positioned to embrace these human power skills alongside AI imperatives. Small class sizes, place-based cultures, and long-standing commitments to whole-child education create the perfect context to double down on human skills. 

But here’s the challenge: Schools often assume that they are already doing this work when, in reality, most aren’t doing this strategically or equitably. The skillset for discussion is often taught everywhere and nowhere, cropping up in advisory, in a civil discourse activity, or in the classrooms of humanities teachers. When students miscommunicate, incidents are handled on a one-off basis by empathetic deans. But what if schools actually defined strategies for systematically teaching, assessing, and celebrating these deeply human, mission-aligned skills? 

The Struggles Are Real

As both an educator and founder who has worked with more than 80 independent schools to build discussion skills programs, I’ve seen firsthand the power of proactively cultivating Authentic Interaction. Deliberate instruction in and assessment of face-to-face discussion skills is a pretty simple way to transform student engagement and create a human-first school culture in an AI world. 

Building effective discussion skills programs for Gen Z and Gen Alpha students must begin with a deep curiosity about their lived experiences. What does real-world discussion actually feel like? How do cultural trends and technological realities influence their experiences? What is hard, scary, uncomfortable, natural, boring, or “cringey”? Through a decade of surveys, interviews, and research, I have identified three major challenges today’s students face when it comes to live discussion. 

Challenge #1: Digital Overload

Technoference—a term coined in 2014 by researcher Brandon T. McDaniel—describes the subtle and constant intrusion of screens, devices, and digital distractions into our in-person interactions. It is the default setting for today’s kids. As they manage communication across multiple media simultaneously, they struggle to differentiate between what’s appropriate online and in person. As veteran educator and AI expert Eric Hudson explains, new technologies are introducing “wholly new categories of conversation,” and kids are understandably tangled up in what’s appropriate where.

On social media, for example, students can disengage without consequence. Don’t like what you see? Scroll. Bored? Double the speed. Don’t want to comment? Lurk. See someone you don’t like? Swipe. These options don’t exist in person. Authentic Interaction requires patience, active listening (even if you don’t like the idea), interpreting nonverbal cues, and then replying respectfully in real time. These skills may be perfectly teachable, but they no longer feel instinctive to students who spend hours a day on social media.

AI presents students with yet another set of “conversational” dynamics that differ markedly from what’s appropriate in person. Students talk to bots very differently from how they would speak to a human, often completely unconcerned about the impact of their tone or words and comically impatient, constantly redirecting the bot until they get exactly what they want with a random “please” or “thank you.” But real conversations aren’t transactional or teleological like AI prompts. They require give-and-take, emotional intelligence, disciplined attention, and trust. This gap, what some experts call “friction,” requires skill and stamina that today’s students do not have without practice. 

While technoference may feel ubiquitous, it doesn’t have to be. To fight it, we need more than guiding values like “empathy” or “curiosity.” We need to translate those values into skills. We need a common language, skill-building routines, and evidence-based assessment practices across a developmental trajectory that makes the traditionally “soft” human skills, like discussion, explicit. This is how they become truly teachable, not just aspirational. 

Challenge #2: Diminished Attention Span

If you ask an educator how kids have changed in the past five years, comments about diminished attention spans or executive function struggles are likely to top the list. A 2015 TIME magazine article is credited with popularizing the notion that people have shorter attention spans than goldfish. While that has been refuted as scientific fact, the focus on reduced attention span is real. Neurologically, attention is the gateway to listening. With such limited attentional ability, students struggle to track ideas over time, which makes it all but impossible to do much more than share-and-stare.

Meanwhile, “executive dysfunction” has emerged as a term to describe a general decline in students’ ability to self-manage. This includes everything from organizing thoughts to working memory and self-regulation. Research from MindPrint Learning also shows that today’s students are struggling with lesser-known executive function capacities such as cognitive shifting, or the ability to transition between ideas or viewpoints post-pandemic. Across ages and stages, teachers see these challenges daily in discussions—in students with official ADD/ADHD diagnoses, certainly, but also in those without. 

Then there’s an additional layer of complication: Neurologically, feelings of anxiety can further sabotage these already-diminished attention spans and executive function capacities. It’s no surprise that many students find discussion inherently anxiety-inducing: It’s public, social, and sometimes even graded. When students experience anxiety during a discussion, they block out everything else (a phenomenon known as amygdala hijacking), short-circuiting Authentic Interaction.

The good news is that executive function is buildable, and feelings of anxiety are usually manageable, as any cognitive behavioral therapy-trained therapist will tell you. But tackling these challenges requires intentionally designed scaffolds and deliberate practice—lessons built on purposeful, predictable, and skill-based routines and reflection opportunities. Independent school faculty are creative and committed, but most do not have this background; school leaders must ensure that faculty have the training and tools to effectively meet these emergent student needs.  

Challenge #3: The Morality of Everything

While “political polarization” has become shorthand for describing yet another challenge today’s students face in having real discussions, my observation is that kids seem to be scared to talk about more than just politics. In R.E.A.L. Discussion surveys of more than 12,000 middle and high school students in independent schools about their experience having class discussions, we often see words like “scared” and “anxious” show up alongside “disagreement” and “difference.” One ninth grader shared this transcendent revelation: “I am learning it is possible to disagree with someone’s idea, not their whole entire identity.”

While political polarization is certainly relevant to today’s students, it’s also worth considering a broader phenomenon called emotivism, a meta-ethical framework where people navigate the world believing that “if you feel it, it is morally correct.” Put differently, emotions, not reason, define right and wrong. This lens explains a lotabout our current political climate, but it also suggests that kids are living in a world where everything feels moral or immoral, right or wrong, and intrinsically tied to their “whole entire identity.” Those judgments are often spontaneous, made in mere seconds. No wonder students are scared to speak up.

For educational leaders in an era of emotivism, the challenge is to create school cultures that value intellectual humility and approach mind-changing and perspective-taking as a natural part of the learning process. This is an advanced discussion skill that builds on foundational competencies in speaking, reasoning, and listening. It’s also one that AI can help students practice. It’s so counterculturalin today’s world that it will require constant modeling by teachers and leaders, including normalizing disagreement without identity threat. 

An Authentic Future 

It sounds ridiculous: Why do we need a strategy for teaching skills that are theoretically innate to humans? In today’s tech-centric world, it’s not that far out; it’s reality. The sooner we embrace it, the better. 

The exciting thing is that human skills like Authentic Interaction are perfectly teachable—and already inherently valued by independent school communities. Independent schools have an opportunity to claim human skills development as part of their strategic advantage and to deliver on it, immediately. 

Any school that has already begun a journey toward skills-based learning has a template to follow. Just consider how human skills and AI fluency fit into your existing frameworks. For schools less familiar with skills-based approaches, leadership teams can start to articulate a vision statement for how both human skills and AI fluency relate to school mission and the existing academic program. From there, schools can design many different paths, but common next steps might include writing a skills scope and sequence; engaging in professional development; designing an impact assessment strategy; and celebrating when better discussion skills create a human-centered culture in an AI world.  

This kind of thoughtful initiative management takes time. So what to do at school tomorrow? Start asking Gen Z and Gen Alpha students to talk (and write) about their experiences with authentic human interaction. Listen closely—and don’t laugh. When they run out of things to say, ask them about AI: What do they hope, fear, and already know? These are the conversations that sustain our shared humanity. 

If your school is ready to design a strategy for Authentic Interaction and Human Skills in AI World, or simply begin this conversation in your community, learn more and let’s talk.

School leaders and teachers see the Conversation Crisis every day. Students arrive academically capable, but when it is time to engage in real discussion, something happens. Participation feels risky. Silence feels safer. Community breaks down. It is the predictable result of a screen-saturated, polarized, AI-shaped world.

Enter Conversation Comeback.: A Teacher’s Guide to Class Discussion in a Distracted, Divided World — a new book by R.E.A.L.® Discussion founder and CEO Liza Garonzik

Grounded in more than a decade of work with schools across the country, the book equips educators with a research-informed, practice-proven framework for teaching the foundationally human skills like discussion intentionally.

We’re encouraged and honored by the response from early readers, whose words whose words affirm both the urgency of this moment and the practicality of the approach.

“A ‘what do we do about this challenge’ solution-oriented book for the present moment.” — Michael Horn

“A coherent, actionable system for building essential human skills.” —Jeff Wetzler

“A guidebook that belongs in every teacher’s toolkit.” — Grant Lichtman

“A timely, practical blueprint for strengthening how students learn, lead, and connect.” — Megan D. Cover

“A plan for teaching the most foundational, human, necessary, and AI-proof skills.” — Claire Goldsmith

“The antidote we need.” — Danielle Heard

“A balm for our digitally intermediated times.” — Peter Nilsson 

“A teachable framework for building discussion skills that strengthen uniquely human capacities.” — Margarita O’Byrne Curtis

“A refreshing reminder of what it means to be human and authentic.” — Bradford Gioia

“An energetic, practical, can-do guide.” —Bart Griffith

Why This Book Matters

The Conversation Crisis is real. In a screen-saturated world, students rarely get authentic opportunities to practice live, human-to-human conversation. They can text instead of talk. Ask a bot instead of a friend. Post into an algorithm-fueled echo chamber. Tune out with headphones.

Meanwhile, in classrooms, we ask them to engage in meaningful discussion.

Class discussion is bigger than academics. It is one of the few spaces where students can build essential human skills — listening, empathy, curiosity, and critical thinking — that matter for learning, life, and society.

As AI reshapes what students can produce, teachers must double down on what students can practice.

What Conversation Comeback Offers

For more than a decade, R.E.A.L.® Discussion has worked with over 100 schools to build a research-informed, practice-proven approach to teaching and assessing discussion skills. In Conversation Comeback, that approach is made accessible to any educator ready to begin.

R.E.A.L.® breaks discussion into four skills — Relate, Excerpt, Ask, and Listen — turning discussion into a teachable, learnable, and measurable practice.

With clear strategies and frameworks, this book equips educators to foster authentic conversation, deeper learning, and stronger classroom communities in a tech-driven and AI-forward world.” Debra Wilson, NAIS President

Teaching discussion is not just a pedagogical choice. It is a strategic one. This is not just about better discussion. Each class discussion is a step closer to a future rich with real, human connection.

Beyond the school day, our shared future depends on teaching today’s students the discussion skills they need to transcend the Conversation Crisis.

That said, Conversation Comeback is not an endpoint. It is the beginning of a broader movement to restore discussion as a core academic practice and a cornerstone of human connection in schools.

Start here. And let’s keep the conversation going.

If You’re Already Part of the REAL Community

So many of you are already partners or long-time champions of this work. This book is as much yours as it is ours!

Here are meaningful ways you can support Conversation Comeback:

• Leave an honest review on Amazon , Blue Hat, or GoodReads. Verified reviews make an enormous difference in helping new educators discover the book.
• Share the link with a colleague, department chair, or head of school.
• Make Conversation Comeback your summer read. More info coming soon on our new edition, written especially for a broader faculty and community-wide audience.
• Post a reflection or connection to REAL in your school on LinkedIn and tag R.E.A.L.® Discussion.

Here’s the CONVERSATION COMEBACK ahead!

On The Purpose and Practice of K-12 Humanities Teaching in Today’s World, Co-written by Humanities Educators | 2026

Schools are moving quickly to adopt AI. New policies are being drafted. New tools are being piloted. Professional development is focused on integration and regulation. All of this work matters. But as the AI conversation accelerates, something is missing.

Humanities teachers have had little time to step back and interrogate the larger issues about pedagogy, childhood, and humanity in an AI world. What is the enduring purpose of reading, writing, and discussion? What must remain deeply human? What shifts in classroom practice, not just policy, are required and why?

R.E.A.L.® Discussion created space for that conversation, convening a collaborative of K–12 humanities educators and academic leaders to engage these foundational questions together. Over two months, participants read, wrote, reflected, and discussed what it means to teach the humanities at this pivotal moment.

The result is Humanities and Humanity in an AI World: An Educator’s Manifesto — a co-constructed declaration about reading, writing, discussion, and the lived experience of being a humanities teacher today.

“We cannot let the AI conversation stay only at the level of tools,” said Liza Garonzik, Founder of R.E.A.L.® Discussion. “The real question is not simply what AI can do, but what only humans can do. We are already living through a conversation crisis. Students are more screen-bound and less practiced in live dialogue. This manifesto reflects the shared belief that educators have the expertise and daily influence to cultivate uniquely human capacities. If we intentionally teach students to read deeply, write clearly, and engage in real discussion, we are not pushing back against the future; we are guiding it. This is our opportunity to lead a true Conversation Comeback.”

We offer this manifesto as an invitation. If your school is ready to move beyond tactical AI conversations and into foundational ones, we encourage you to read the document, share it with your team, and use the reflection questions on the final page to begin your own discussion.

At R.E.A.L.® Discussion, we help schools translate conversations like these into coherent, skills-based practice. If you are ready to build a deliberate approach to reading, writing, and discussion in an AI-shaped world, we would welcome the opportunity to partner with you. Find a time to chat here.

We hope you’ll join us on LinkedIn for the conversation about the Manifesto.

At R.E.A.L.® Discussion, understanding how higher education approaches dialogue and discourse gives us a glimpse of what lies ahead for our K-12 students. The habits we build in middle and high school shape how young people show up as thinkers and community members for life. That starts with intentionally teaching how to actively listen, articulate ideas, question assumptions, and make meaning together. 

I reached out to Kristi Clemens, Executive Director of Dartmouth Dialogues at Dartmouth and co-author of From Safe Spaces to Brave Spaces, to learn how those same goals are coming to life on campus through Dartmouth Dialogues. 

Liza Garonzik: I’m excited to hear about Dartmouth Dialogues, but first, tell us about your path. Why do you believe in dialogue? 

Kristi Clemens: Thank you for inviting me. One of the joys of this work is connecting with people outside of higher education. We know we’re just one moment in a person’s larger education journey. 

Speaking of that journey, I’m a first-generation college student who never expected to build a career in higher ed. As an undergrad, I worked in admissions and residence life and found my calling in helping students grow. I tend to find the most joy in problem-solving work, so I sometimes describe myself as the person who runs towards the fire rather than away from it, and that’s been a theme in various higher ed roles for more than 25 years now.

That perspective shapes how I see today’s students. When they show up on our campus, it’s often the first time they’re confronted with something unexpected, and they aren’t sure how to handle it. They struggle with having uncomfortable conversations or talking through important decisions. These moments of friction and growth are pivotal, yet more often, I see students opt out when faced with uncertainty. Instead of problem-solving or seeking help, they outsource decisions or avoid hard conversations together. Their communication skills have precipitously decreased over the past decade.

And nationally, our discourse isn’t offering healthy models. If not higher education, who will teach these skills? As a first-generation graduate whose life was changed by access and challenge, I take that responsibility seriously.

That certainly resonates with our view at R.E.A.L.® Discussion, where we talk a lot about the opportunity teachers have to ensure their students graduate high school and enter today’s rapidly changing world with essential communication skills. Turning to Dartmouth Dialogues: what’s the origin story, the goals, and what does programming look like?

Kristi: Many colleges are rethinking how to teach dialogue and discourse, but Dartmouth began this work earlier. In 2019, Dean of the Faculty Elizabeth Smith noticed faculty struggling to spark deep classroom discussion and to navigate conflict with one another. She convened a small group to explore how other institutions were teaching constructive dialogue and drafted a proposal for what became the Dartmouth Dialogue Project.

The pandemic paused progress, but the idea gained momentum when President Sian Beilock arrived in 2023. Having led similar work at Barnard, she immediately saw its potential. Later that year, as global events renewed the urgency for difficult conversations, particularly following October 7, Dartmouth’s Jewish Studies and Middle Eastern Studies departments modeled what constructive engagement could look like through public panels on Israel and Gaza. Their example helped shape Dartmouth Dialogues, officially launched in January 2024.

Today, the initiative brings dialogue practice into every corner of campus, from the Dickey Center’s Middle East Dialogues to the Rockefeller Center’s political conversations to student-led debates through the Dartmouth Political Union. With partners like the Constructive Dialogue Institute and StoryCorps’ One Small Step, the goal is simple but ambitious: to make dialogue a shared skill set, not a side program. We want “surround sound” across campus, not a “dialogue house.” 

You’re right. Too often, dialogue is opt-in, missing those who need it most and creating echo chambers. We use a “Conversation Lab” analogy, like the computer labs that once taught every student to type. Imagine if discussion skills were taught with the same intentionality. 

Kristi: We definitely agree—intentionality matters, especially for today’s students. Our Gen Z students bring perspectives shaped by COVID and today’s political climate. They want change but often don’t know where to start. From day one, we set the expectation that dialogue is part of being in this community and give them brave spaces to practice. 

Students value it, and some choose Dartmouth for it, yet time is a real barrier. Our 10-week quarters move fast. They want these skills but can’t add more to their plates, which reinforces the need to integrate dialogue into existing courses and experiences.

Looking ahead, we’re exploring ways to anchor this work in the first-year writing program, seminars, and our residential house communities. Building trust takes time, but students consistently tell us they want dialogue embedded, not treated as an add-on.

We see the same gap: the desire is there, the skills aren’t, and time is scarce. Live conversation is rarely the most efficient, which is why protecting time matters.

Kristi: I think that’s why we’re seeing many pitches for AI chatbots as dialogue tools. Sure, some AI tools can help, but they can reinforce unhelpful habits. My own seventh-grader rarely meets friends face-to-face; they text and trade voice notes. The norms we’re allowing to solidify concern me.

That’s why I appreciate K–12 partners who interrupt those norms: phone-free schools, prompts to talk to one another, and more typing and writing rather than dictation. Small interventions can steer us back toward healthy interpersonal interaction, though we still need to learn how to scale what works.

K–12 colleagues like Eric Hudson point out that human–AI interaction is a “new category of conversation.” We’ll need language for it and clarity about how it differs from human dialogue. AI has compelling use cases, and face-to-face conversation has biological ones. We can outsource tasks and pursue efficiency, but if we cannot be good friends, partners, debaters, or collaborators, we lose essential social fitness.

Kristi: Yes, I think about late-night residence hall debates that challenged ideas for the fun of it. But on small campuses these days, a single misstep can follow a student, chilling discourse. Even so, there’s something rejuvenating about face-to-face exchange that challenges and is challenged in return. I hope we find ways to preserve that energy.

We absolutely share that hope at R.E.A.L. It’s not just about conversation; it’s about preparing them for citizenship, leadership, and life. To keep the conversation going, follow R.E.A.L.® Discussion on LinkedIn.

It’s been fun to see other founders share the “unhinged” things they have done to build their businesses. Many have resonated deeply: late nights, early mornings, competing priorities, sales-fails…

But to me, this trend is more than entertainment. It’s an example of authentic interaction in a world that is increasingly AI-dominated, and I’m a relentless champion for human connection.

So, what are some of the “unhinged” things I have done to build R.E.A.L.® Discussion?

1. I booked a terrifying number of speaking gigs, with essentially no speaking experience. One June, I ran 120 hours of PD, having facilitated half that number of hours total in my whole life to that point. And one October, I spoke at nine conferences, with exactly one presentation under my belt before that. Was it exhausting? You bet! Terrifying? Totally. But, I saw these opportunities as boot camp: time for me to build skills I needed and didn’t yet have, fast. Brain science says spaced repetition is the key to deep learning. After this experience, I believed it. I learned a lot in those early days—not only that I needed to develop a great program, but also that I needed to train great teammates to facilitate it.
2. I (over)relied on interns. Speaking of the team, my approach to talent management has probably been the most “unhinged” of it all. I began with interns, and will always have them. To this day, it fills my educator-heart to keep working with young people and giving them real responsibilities to develop professional skills: providing live client service, producing curriculum used by real classrooms, managing social media seen by thousands, and the list goes on. Those intern-only years launched the mantra that still guides our company today: If we’re learning, we’re winning.
3. I purposefully stayed the only FTE. Even when I could have afforded staff beyond interns, I chose to work with almost 90 contractors to build this thing. I have found that fractional experts offer high-quality, targeted work, and that approach has challenged me to get crystal-clear on each project I scope and direct resources and energy to. Plus, the constant turnover forced me to codify how we onboard and operate. This organizational maturity never would have happened if we had built with a few generalist FTEs passing Google Docs back and forth.
4. I filmed courses from my online-course-studio-laundry-room. After reading many blogs about how to set up the perfect online course studio, I decided I didn’t need a perfectly positioned fiddleleaf fig to get my message across. I built a standing desk out of diaper boxes on top of my dryer. I positioned my microphone as far away as possible from the chicken coop. And yes: the rooster makes his way into the audio tracks here and here. Hopefully, people find it charming. While an upgrade would be nice, thousands of educators have learned effectively from that setup.
5. For six years, I woke up at 4:30 am to do R.E.A.L.® work before going to my full-time job. I worked in schools during the day, then worked on R.E.A.L.® from 4:30–6:30 am. (You read that part about the rooster, right?). I saw the two jobs as complementary: my experience as a real teacher and administrator allowed me to design programs that would actually work on the ground level, and my bigger picture mission helped me keep the daily drama of school life in perspective. And yes: summers mostly meant even more time for R.E.A.L. ®, often spent on free passes at different WeWorks or leading workshops anywhere a school would hire me. As any founder knows, the time is there; you just have to find it.
6. Okay, I admit it. I even bought fake eyeglasses. Why? Because I’m not old enough to need “readers, “ but every great school administrator I know seems to wear glasses at least some of the time. It wasn’t just that. I actually got feedback that I needed to look older to be taken seriously! As the saying goes: to sell Jones what Jones buys, see the world through Jones’ eyes. (Don’t worry; I drew the line at the beaded lanyard).

Were these moves unconventional? Maybe. Unhinged? Probably. Worth it? Absolutely.

Those early days planted the seeds for a thriving company that has now served thousands of educators and tens of thousands of students across the country and around the world.

In fact, educators know what it means to hustle for something you believe in. At R.E.A.L.®, that means teaching real-world discussion skills in school, so students can build human connection even as they grow up in a tech-centric world.

What are the “unhinged” moves you have made to make your dream a reality? Drop a comment here or over on the R.E.A.L.® Discussion page, where we love discussing discussion. Of course, I always welcome a conversation.

What happens when we teach young people to truly listen, speak with courage, and connect face-to-face?

In Episode 8 of Millions of Conversations, hosted by Samar S. Ali and produced by NewsChannel 5 Network, Liza Garonzik joins the show to explore that big, deceptively simple question.

At a time when disconnection is everywhere—amplified by disconnection, polarization, and increased pressure on young people—Liza shares how R.E.A.L. Discussion® equips students and teachers with tools to reclaim conversation as a powerful, academic, and decidedly human practice.

What You’ll Hear in This Episode:

• Why face-to-face conversation is more than a soft skill; it’s a survival skill
• How R.E.A.L. turns listening and speaking into teachable, assessable practices
• What changes when students lead their own classroom discussions
• How communication tools ripple outward to kitchen tables, checkout lines, and future workplaces
• A hopeful, practical vision for education in a polarized, tech-saturated world

Why It Matters

We live in a moment defined by noise and an aching need for connection. And that need shows up everywhere: in classrooms, homes, neighborhoods, and institutions. This episode reminds us that the skills we need to rebuild trust and relationships aren’t automatic; they can be taught—and they often start with a single conversation.

If we want our kids to connect with others and lead with integrity, we have to teach them how. Face-to-face. In real time.”

Liza Garonzik, R.E.A.L. Discussion® Founder & CEO

Listen Now

Listen to the full conversation now on the Millions of Conversations podcast.

Prefer to watch?
Let’s Have a R.E.A.L. Discussion® with Liza Garonzik – Episode 8

Explore More

• Check out what teachers are saying about R.E.A.L.® in their classrooms
• Learn more about R.E.A.L. Discussion® and our approach
• Read about what we’re calling “The Other AI”
• Join our Community on LinkedIn where we love to discuss discussion

Hosted by Simon Noakes (Founder & CEO of Interactive Schools), the Inspiring Schools Podcast welcomes some of the world’s most influential educators to explore the future of education, leadership, innovation, AI in schools, evolving school structures, and more. Each episode offers fresh insight into the ideas shaping the education landscape.

In this episode, R.E.A.L. Discussion® founder & CEO Liza Garonzik joins Simon for a timely conversation about why teaching real-world communication skills is more urgent than ever—and how schools can do it with clarity, rigor, and purpose.

What You’ll Hear in This Episode

• Why speaking and listening are academic skills, not just social ones
• How R.E.A.L. Discussion® helps students lead class discussions with structure and confidence
• What schools can do now to prepare students for the human future

Why It Matters

The skills students need most—empathy, clarity, confidence, nuance—come from real conversation. And those skills can’t just be hoped for. They must be taught, practiced, and measured.

At R.E.A.L. Discussion®, we help schools do just that by embedding human connection into academic life and giving teachers and students the tools to make it stick.

Listen to the Full Episode Now

Let’s Keep Talking

• Learn More About R.E.A.L. Discussion®
• Hop on Liza’s calendar for a 1:1
• Visit our LinkedIn page to continue the conversation

I saw this quote on a slide the other day – and thought: what an inconvenient truth! But it’s not wrong: pedagogical change is hard. My perspective on this is hard-won: at R.E.A.L., we have worked with almost a thousand teachers to change how they run class discussion in the last four years. So: how have we done it so far – and what changes do we need to make to do it better this year? 

First: at R.E.A.L. Discussion, we pride ourselves on being realists. We swear by the mantra “name it to tame it” – though that means we sometimes say things out loud others don’t: One-and-done workshops don’t actually work! Curricular change is as much about managing generational differences in the workplace as it is teaching kids! Facilitating discussions does not mean you are teaching discussion skills! 

In the face of these challenges, we start small: trusting that changes in daily habits add up to intentional skill-building. And we never lose sight of the why behind the work: connecting the dots between what happens in the classroom today and what our world will look like tomorrow. 

As a result, we do not approach teachers who use R.E.A.L.®  as “customers” or “users.” We treat teachers as professionals, adults with agency who teach, learn, and reflect for a living. We believe that R.E.A.L.® teachers are pedagogical pioneers who understand that they are part of something bigger than themselves. They are creative, generous, reflective, and resilient. They stand shoulder-to-shoulder with us in our mission: to teach discussion skills to kids growing up in our tech-centric, polarized world. 

Over the last year, we have been engaged in deep conversations with teachers and academic leaders about how we can design our program to best support teachers as they “pioneer.” Our initial instincts led to two now-familiar offerings: on-demand instructional coaching for individuals (“Office Hours”) and monthly, topic-based webinars (“Study Sesh”). While Office Hours have been widely used – teachers have called it “better than therapy,” “a luxury,” “the thing I didn’t know I was missing in my teaching life” – Study Sesh has been a logistical challenge.

Thanks to feedback from our community, we realized something was missing: we weren’t creating opportunities for practitioners to have real, consistent conversations with each other about their practice. That’s why in 2025-26, we are introducing R.E.A.L.® Professional Learning Communities (PLCs).

R.E.A.L.® PLCs will be virtual cohorts of R.E.A.L. practitioners who gather four times a year. Grouped first by experience level (i.e. New to R.E.A.L.; 1-2 Years with R.E.A.L;, 3+ Years with R.E.A.L.) and then in break-outs by department (i.e. English, History, Other). These PLCs will provide consistent opportunities for relationship-building and real discussions about immediate pedagogical challenges. In this first year, enrollment will be capped in order to maintain the integrity of the experience; we expect the Zoom-Rooms to be full of some of the brightest minds and biggest hearts in the network!

R.E.A.L. ® Teachers, if you are interested in joining a PLC, talk to your Department Chair ASAP. And R.E.A.L. ® Leaders, if you want to represent your school in PLC’s this year, let’s think together about which teachers to nominate.

Curriculum may be hard to change, but conversation is key to how it happens. At R.E.A.L. ® we are proud and grateful to facilitate. Here’s to the real discussions ahead in PLC in 25-26! 

What We’ve Learned Works – and Doesn’t! 

When I jumped in to build R.E.A.L.® full-time in 2021, I never would have dreamed that by 2024 we would have worked with seventy school partners. When independent school leaders see the variety of schools in the R.E.A.L.® community, we often get a raised eyebrow or a comment like, “well that is certainly an interesting list!” or “hmmm … you don’t see that line up of schools often!”

It’s a fair response. The R.E.A.L.® community includes rural schools and urban schools; single-sex and co-ed schools; boarding and day schools; regionally-all-over-everywhere schools; Quaker, Jewish, Catholic, Episcopal, Christian, and non-denominational schools; tuition-free and top-of-market schools; and the list goes on.  

Part of this is diversity was intentional and strategic on my end. I have wanted to test the robustness of the R.E.A.L.® pedagogy: can R.E.A.L.® work in all of these different contexts? What adaptations need to be made? This diversity mattered to me from a mission perspective, too: I have wanted to equip children from all kinds of backgrounds with the universal skills they need to talk across difference across their lifetimes. That is, of course, the ultimate vision and power of R.E.A.L.® Discussion. 

That said, I’ve been thinking a lot about what this oddball collective actually has in common. Put differently, what makes a school a great-fit for a partnership with R.E.A.L.®? Why does R.E.A.L.® Discussion thrive at some of these schools – and not others? 

It’s not a question of budget, as most schools have the resources to operationalize our program. It’s not a question of mission, as most schools have *at least* three abstract nouns in their mission statement related to discussion. It’s not a question of teacher skill or will, as most teachers are relieved to have a method to explicitly address the communication skills deficit that makes their job harder every day. 

Our strongest school partnerships are built on three shared beliefs and one operational reality. 

The shared beliefs?

1) Discussion instruction starts with skills: our goal is to teach students how to communicate—not what to say. Too often, we expect kids to have hard conversations before building their skills to engage in any conversation. Our best partners understand that students need to  walk before running, that before “engaging in civil discourse,” they have to teach both civility and discourse skills. 

2) These skills are high-stakes: discussion skills instruction belongs in core academic courses—not just advisory. This is a deal-breaker for a surprising number of potential partner schools! What we often hear is that it’s too hard to change core academic instructional practices – most often because of a culture of high autonomy faculty or academic initiative “windburn.” It’s true that Advisory can be easier: it hits all faculty and all students at once, no one is particularly vested in the content, and it can be pretty efficient (assuming there’s time between homecoming announcements, birthday celebrations, and the drug-education program all scheduled for next Tuesday). But our best partners don’t back away from this challenge. They recognize that this is too high stakes a skillset to relegate to Advisory or to have taught variably across classrooms through non-research based methods. These leaders work with us to design a pedagogical change management strategy – often but not always relating R.E.A.L. ® to initiatives already underway, like Competency Based Learning – and they begin with clear goals, not just “let me see who would be interested in attending this workshop!”   

3) This work is worth the time: at R.E.A.L.® meaningful growth comes from measurement and practice —not “one-and-done” PD. I sometimes joke that my auto-responder on my inbox should be “I’m so sorry but I can’t train your faculty in civil discourse in a ninety minute workshop on your next in-service day.” Why? At R.E.A.L.®, we don’t believe in or offer one-and-done PD, despite it being the industry model. Those quick-hits don’t do justice to our purpose – real behavior change takes time. Our best partner schools intuitively respect this: they are willing to be patient enough to be strategic. They are looking for a true partner to help them increase discussion capacity across their entire community over several years – and we are more than happy to fit that need (including delivering live workshops when the time is right). 

The operational reality? 

Across our diverse school partners, perhaps the biggest commonality is having a visionary, strategic, and authentic Academic Leader to act as our point person. That person can occupy different roles at different schools – most often it’s an Associate Head for Academics, Dean of Faculty, Teaching and Learning Director, or Humanities Department Chair – but they are utterly committed to our shared mission and to striking the balance between alignment and autonomy for faculty. This Leader thinks about change management across multiple levels and stakeholders; they are optimistic and pragmatic; they are curious and excited to engage in our Academic Leaders community; and they have a certain comfort level with managing external partnerships. (For the record: we have also had multiple Department Chairs successfully manage R.E.A.L. ® programs and independently describe our support as “a luxury.” We’ll take it!). 

An Invitation

So for anyone wondering about the line-up of school logos on our website, I hope this offers you insight! For anyone considering partnering with R.E.A.L. ® Discussion next year, I hope this gives you clarity on whether we are a fit. We are proud of and grateful for our diverse community.

And, if the above excited rather than scared you – please reach out.We are identifying our partner schools for the 25-26 school year now; I’d love nothing more than to discuss discussion together!

It was the Wednesday before Thanksgiving in 2013: Grandfriends’ Day in my eighth grade classroom. The kids had decided they wanted to show their grandparents a R.E.A.L.® Discussion, and I had pulled together a packet of primary sources related to the first Thanksgiving. I remember going into that day feeling relieved: the kids would carry the day instead of my running a dog-and-pony show!

The discussion wasn’t perfect, but it was authentic. Every child talked. They related, used evidence, asked questions, and listened to each other. They showed up prepared and stopped to take notes. They managed their time without me – and they ended with shout-outs, thanking each other for bringing up ideas that had helped them see a new perspective. They ran all of the R.E.A.L.® routines effortlessly, as if by muscle memory, and I smiled remembering how clunky these conversations had seemed even a month ago. A case study in intentional practice leading to mastery, indeed.

As we wrapped up class, a grandfather raised his hand. “Wow! That was extraordinary! Truly. You all did a better job than my Board of Directors does at my company. I can’t wait for you to run the world.” Other grandparents jumped in (they kept interrupting each other, which the kids thought was wildly entertaining): 

…“I wish you could teach this to Congress!” 

…“I wish we could do this at our Thanksgiving table tomorrow.” 

…“What would the world be like if this is how we talked to each other?”

…“We need this in every school in our country tomorrow!”

…“No offense, Anna, but I have never heard you talk in a class I’ve visited on Grandfriends’ Day … and now it’s been, what, nine years of them?! Your voice and ideas were beautiful and you were so confident!”

I felt the unadulterated joy of an exhausted first-year teacher encountering success at semester-end – and sent everyone on their way. When the kids came back after break and we got ready for our next R.E.A.L.® Discussion, one boy said: “Can I just say I didn’t realize we were learning skills for jobs and stuff with R.E.A.L.®? Like, I thought it was just for books.” A girl who was widely known to want to be a Supreme Court Justice said: “I know. Like when someone said that thing about Congress I was like THIS IS MY FUTURE!” A quieter voice piped up: “Yeah but also I don’t even know what I want to be and I feel like R.E.A.L.® is still helpful already. Even in little things – like, I’m a more respectful fighter with my brother.”

This made me smile even more widely than I did on Grandfriends’ Day. In that moment, I realized: R.E.A.L.® is so much bigger than my classroom. Eli was exactly right: R.E.A.L.® is not only about teaching kids academic skills for better discussions about literature and history … it is preparation for life and leadership. Discussion is how the most meaningful parts of the human experience – like love, friendship, faith, professional impact, community, democracy – actually happen. Kids deserve to know this as they practice discussion skills daily (as adults: we need to do a better job telling them!).

Every Thanksgiving, I feel grateful for that classroom of students and grandparents who helped me dream bigger. And in the intervening decade of building R.E.A.L.®, my gratitude has grown exponentially. It now extends to the thousands of teachers and tens of thousands of students who have used R.E.A.L.® Discussion. Their on-the-ground feedback, experiences, and brilliant ideas – and generosity in sharing them – have strengthened our programs and our community. Their continual discussion about discussion and commitment to what we call “pedagogical pioneering” – the project of developing the first research-based approach to explicitly teach and assess face-to-face discussion skills in school – is inspiring, authentic, and proof of why lifelong learning matters.

I am also grateful for the generosity of spirit and intellect I have found among leaders in education and social impact: their hard-earned wisdom, expertise, and tough-as-nails questions have helped me chart the “hockey stick” path for this fledgling organization. I left my full-time work in schools – which I loved and, if I’m honest, still miss! – because I felt called to this mission, compelled by the question of: “If I didn’t do it, then who would?” I stumbled into social entrepreneurship, but I have survived because of other leaders who help me think differently in the challenging moments. 

So, this Thanksgiving, my shout-outs are to everyone who has ever shared your thoughts with us at R.E.A.L.®. Thank you for your perspectives, questions, and great-big-ideas. They have taught me so much and kept me going, day after day, as I pursue the dream of providing discussion skills instruction for every young person growing up in our tech-centric, polarized world. Together, and through our extended conversation, we have kept the faith: by teaching discussion skills today, we empower the next generation to build a better tomorrow. 

Here’s to another decade of real discussions ahead – starting with those around your Thanksgiving table this week!